New to solar, have bid from Solar City

[Ian S]

Actually the bids between dealers more than likely will vary in price and yes how the SunPower dealers are ranked has become a bit of a joke recently. In last 6 months everybody has become a SunPower dealer the higher the rankings don't really mean much more than they are moving a lot of SunPower product.

Just checked for dealers in Fresno area at Sunpower website. First one on list no longer links to a website. Another on list appears to be more of a component supplier than an installer. Leaves three dealers that seem worth checking out.

[SoCalsolar]

Actually...

Actually the bids between dealers more than likely will vary in price and yes how the SunPower dealers are ranked has become a bit of a joke recently. In last 6 months everybody has become a SunPower dealer the higher the rankings don't really mean much more than they are moving a lot of SunPower product.

[russ]

I just called SunPower and they are referring me to their top of the list dealer in my area. I guess they have different levels of dealers based on their training and such.

No more than a salesman's BS.

[Rockit31]

Of course, going with the prepaid lease will give you a significant "bird in the hand" in $$ from day one. I rechecked the SC lease that was offered to me and it does not appear to have a buyout option even at lease end. If that's still the case, I'd say that's a significant negative compared to some of the others I investigated including the Sunpower I went with. Most have a FMV buyout clause at lease end. What would FMV be for a 20 year old system? Hard to say but at least it's an additional option. In any event, in 20 years, you have to consider redoing the roof anyway which requires removal of the panels. maybe a good time to consider an all-new PV system as well.

The SC lease does offer a buyout at FMV after 20 years. But like you said, I'll need a new roof in 20 years, and I'd bet my next paycheck that I'll want something more modern than my 20 year old solar system. That's why I like this prepay lease deal.

[Rockit31]

Hard to believe they'd vary much. Might look into BBB ratings, how long in business doing solar, etc.

I just called SunPower and they are referring me to their top of the list dealer in my area. I guess they have different levels of dealers based on their training and such.

[Ian S]

It looks like there's a handful of local guys here who use Sunpower. Can I assume that each of their bids will be similarly priced or can it vary alot? Just wondering how many Sunpower bids I need to get.

Hard to believe they'd vary much. Might look into BBB ratings, how long in business doing solar, etc.

[Ian S]

Where the purchase looks good is after 20 years if you decide to not renew the lease and the lease company removes the panels. Most sales guys say oh what would they want with 20 year old panels? They are right I doubt SC will be in business in twenty years but I have nevr known of a big corporation to walk away from a dollar and if they can contract with a third party to remove the panels and make a buck off of them. Well what do you think they will do? Walk from a buck or take another buck? So if you end up with out a solar system in 20 years then it is possible that a purchase could save you more money after the 20 years. That being said I would more than likely go with the PPD lease. The buy out in 6.6 years that SunPower offers is a few hundred bucks or the infamous Fair Market Value which ever is higher.

Of course, going with the prepaid lease will give you a significant "bird in the hand" in $$ from day one. I rechecked the SC lease that was offered to me and it does not appear to have a buyout option even at lease end. If that's still the case, I'd say that's a significant negative compared to some of the others I investigated including the Sunpower I went with. Most have a FMV buyout clause at lease end. What would FMV be for a 20 year old system? Hard to say but at least it's an additional option. In any event, in 20 years, you have to consider redoing the roof anyway which requires removal of the panels. maybe a good time to consider an all-new PV system as well.

[Rockit31]

It looks like there's a handful of local guys here who use Sunpower. Can I assume that each of their bids will be similarly priced or can it vary alot? Just wondering how many Sunpower bids I need to get.

[Rockit31]

The SunPower lease up till now has been less however they are increasing pricing on their lease. If you moved like today you might slip in under the wire. From what little I know about SolarCity they tend to really push the escalation of the cost of electricty to make their number look more attractive. Looking at your situation I would have them price you a larger system with the goal if the numbers work producing 90-100% of your bill. It sounds like you plan to be in this house for the term of the lease and if you take that scary escalation of electricity 5,6,or 7% a year your $97 bill will return to $270 before the lease ends somewhere between year 13 and 18 with the cost of your remaining electricty increasing and the production of the panels decreasing annually. If you can do a prepaid go for the whole tamale. I know the lower tiers are cheap but the PPD lease is cheaper and you will avoid all that scary escalation in price due to PG&E greed. Sometimes SC limits the size of the system due to available roof space or trying to hit a specific tier. Tier shaving works but its also a way that sloppy installer or sales guy can get loose with the truth as to where your bill will end up. As far as buy vs lease this depends on what your time frame in the house is. 20 years PPD lease is more than likely better only scenario that would flip this time period is if the lease companies like SC, Sun Run, Sunpower get to lobbying those honest politicians in sacremento to institute an REC market like they have in NJ. They stand to collect all the income the RECs generate in a lease scenario but in a purchase scenario you would collect them. Where the purchase looks good is after 20 years if you decide to not renew the lease and the lease company removes the panels. Most sales guys say oh what would they want with 20 year old panels? They are right I doubt SC will be in business in twenty years but I have nevr known of a big corporation to walk away from a dollar and if they can contract with a third party to remove the panels and make a buck off of them. Well what do you think they will do? Walk from a buck or take another buck? So if you end up with out a solar system in 20 years then it is possible that a purchase could save you more money after the 20 years. That being said I would more than likely go with the PPD lease. The buy out in 6.6 years that SunPower offers is a few hundred bucks or the infamous Fair Market Value which ever is higher.

Thanks for this. You're right, if PGE keeps going up, then that $98 a month goes up with it. I do have another bid from them that has 42 panels, 10.08 kw system. It would require me to really prune this big chinese elm in the front, if not cut it down totally. The prepay lease is much more, $25,140, but of course a much bigger savings of $79,676 over 20 years. Anyways, I've placed calls for quotes from some other local players and we'll see what I got to compare against.

[SoCalsolar]

Get more proposals

The SunPower lease up till now has been less however they are increasing pricing on their lease. If you moved like today you might slip in under the wire. From what little I know about SolarCity they tend to really push the escalation of the cost of electricty to make their number look more attractive. Looking at your situation I would have them price you a larger system with the goal if the numbers work producing 90-100% of your bill. It sounds like you plan to be in this house for the term of the lease and if you take that scary escalation of electricity 5,6,or 7% a year your $97 bill will return to $270 before the lease ends somewhere between year 13 and 18 with the cost of your remaining electricty increasing and the production of the panels decreasing annually. If you can do a prepaid go for the whole tamale. I know the lower tiers are cheap but the PPD lease is cheaper and you will avoid all that scary escalation in price due to PG&E greed. Sometimes SC limits the size of the system due to available roof space or trying to hit a specific tier. Tier shaving works but its also a way that sloppy installer or sales guy can get loose with the truth as to where your bill will end up. As far as buy vs lease this depends on what your time frame in the house is. 20 years PPD lease is more than likely better only scenario that would flip this time period is if the lease companies like SC, Sun Run, Sunpower get to lobbying those honest politicians in sacremento to institute an REC market like they have in NJ. They stand to collect all the income the RECs generate in a lease scenario but in a purchase scenario you would collect them. Where the purchase looks good is after 20 years if you decide to not renew the lease and the lease company removes the panels. Most sales guys say oh what would they want with 20 year old panels? They are right I doubt SC will be in business in twenty years but I have nevr known of a big corporation to walk away from a dollar and if they can contract with a third party to remove the panels and make a buck off of them. Well what do you think they will do? Walk from a buck or take another buck? So if you end up with out a solar system in 20 years then it is possible that a purchase could save you more money after the 20 years. That being said I would more than likely go with the PPD lease. The buy out in 6.6 years that SunPower offers is a few hundred bucks or the infamous Fair Market Value which ever is higher.

[Ian S]

Wow!, that's a much nicer deal than mine. Is it generally cheaper to do this in Arizona? Is yours for 20 years as well?

Regarding equipment, he showed me a list of different vendors' panels they use, he couldn't guarantee which exact one which would be installed on my roof because products change and advance he says. Not sure what inverter they use either. I will find out.

Yes mine is also for 20 years and includes insurance and repairs including inverter. In Arizona, there is also a utility rebate which goes to the leasing company but that would have been the same for the SolarCity quote as well as the Sunpower. Other than that I suspect installation might be cheaper here but again my numbers were a direct comparison between leases. When the guy says the products change and advance, what he really means is they don't know which company will be offering them the cheapest panels at the time! Anyway, there are several Sunpower dealers in Fresno so you might want to at least get a bid. Sunpower also offers an early buyout after year six of the lease. I also got bids from Rec Solar and Sungevity.

[Rockit31]

I live in Phoenix and went through all this last summer. I went the prepaid lease route. It's a far better deal than the regular type of lease. Do get some other bids! The variability in pricing is significant. I found SolarCity considerably higher than the one I eventually went with: a local installer who offered the Sunpower lease. SolarCity offered me a 7.76 kW system for prepayment of $11,687; my Sunpower lease is for a 6.9 kW system for $6,729. Did Solar City say what components they will use? That would be good to know. Sunpower, a major panel manufacturer, uses their own panels and inverter (a rebadged SMA) all made in the USA. Get and carefully read copies of the leases before you sign anything. If you have any questions, you might ask an attorney or a friend who is knowledgeable about leases.

Wow!, that's a much nicer deal than mine. Is it generally cheaper to do this in Arizona? Is yours for 20 years as well?

Regarding equipment, he showed me a list of different vendors' panels they use, he couldn't guarantee which exact one which would be installed on my roof because products change and advance he says. Not sure what inverter they use either. I will find out.

[Ian S]

I live in Phoenix and went through all this last summer. I went the prepaid lease route. It's a far better deal than the regular type of lease. Do get some other bids! The variability in pricing is significant. I found SolarCity considerably higher than the one I eventually went with: a local installer who offered the Sunpower lease. SolarCity offered me a 7.76 kW system for prepayment of $11,687; my Sunpower lease is for a 6.9 kW system for $6,729. Did Solar City say what components they will use? That would be good to know. Sunpower, a major panel manufacturer, uses their own panels and inverter (a rebadged SMA) all made in the USA. Get and carefully read copies of the leases before you sign anything. If you have any questions, you might ask an attorney or a friend who is knowledgeable about leases.

[Rockit31]

Yeah, I'm tired of handing over a big chunk of my paycheck to PG&E. I have finally started seriously thinking of adding solar to my home. A buddy of mine signed a lease with Solar City over a year ago and he is a happy clam. Because of this, I called Solar City and their guy came out and we sat down for a couple of hours after which he presented their bid to me. I have not looked at anybody else yet, but i plan to call a couple others to get their quotes as well. I just wanted to deliver the details of this bid and ask you all whether you think this is a fair deal or whether I should keep looking.

I have to admit, I am very attracted to the idea of leasing after hearing everything that is entailed. They presented me 3 lease options, all of them are for a 20 year term:

1) no money down, a monthly fee of $137 that ramps up 2.9% each year.
2) $500 down, a flat monthly fee of $153 that stays that way for the 20 years, they also give me a $500 Visa gift card.
3) prepay option, $16,600 paid up front, and no further payments made to SC.

I will now post the pertinant details of my proposed system and their prognosticated savings:

System size 6.48kWh, I believe it's 27 panels all sitting on my south facing roof. I live in Fresno, CA, which gets alot of sun and alot of heat. This proposed system would produce 8442 kwh annually.

Based on my consumption over the last year, my average bill for electric alone was $276, with avg PG&E price at 21.6 cents /kwh.
With the new system my average PG&E electric charge would be $96 with an average cost of $15.5 cents/ kwh. Supposedly a very conservative estimate because they do have to meet this estimate per contract. The reality is that average bill could be much lower, especially if I convert my PG&E rate plan to what's called an E6 Time of Day usage plan, (I'm currently on an E8). Since nobody is at home during the weekdays, it is felt that the E6 plan would serve us better, especially if I program my pool and spa to run at night. Their conservative estimate states that I will save 65% from PG&E bill.

They also have a purchase plan and my system would cost out of pocket $32,279 with a Federal tax credit of $9594 for final system cost of $22,685.

Looking at each of these options, I have to admit that I am really attracted to option 3, the prepay lease. No, I do not have $16,600 in my hand but I can easily draw a loan from my fed gov. retirement fund with an extremely low interest rate of 1.3%. I'd probably do that on a 2 year term, kicking in approx. $700 a month. This option shows the highest savings over the 20 year period. They estimate $58,367, higher even than the purchase plan which states a savings of $50,261. It beats by far the other 2 lease options which show a $39,520 savings.

You all probably know the deal with Solar City lease, they have constant monitoring, warranty, insurance for the 20 years. They will also provide a free home energy audit as well as fully replace my old decrepit power panel at no charge.

I have a ranch style single story 2000sf home 90% wood, 10% brick, built in 1973 and a 30 year comp shingle roof that is 10 years old. I have only 1 tree that might need a little pruning but other than that, based on their satellite topography calcs, all of my panels would sit in full reception of whatever light they can get.

Another thing I like about the prepay is that if I decide to sell my home before the 20 years is up, the buyer could take over the lease and not have to worry about a monthly payment to Solar City.

So I guess the reason for this post is just to get some feedback on the cost. Is this a fair deal in the area that I live? I do plan to call a couple of other players and get their numbers before I commit.