Can I get some last minute advice before signing contract?

[Ampster]

Sad but true. Unless we can get people to find ways to reduce their consumption no amount of storage is going to keep all the lights on.

I know, conservation is always the best return on investment. I thought TOU rates in California would do that because I am a believe in free markets. I am amazed at the comments of people on social media that get these huge bills after being converted to TOU rates and have no idea how to manage energy or even read a bill.. It is not just a problem in the uS. I have visit peoples homes in high rises in China that are served by central heat plants. Instead of turning down the knob on the register or turning down the thermostat if there is one, they crack open a window in the middle of the winter to lower the temperature.

[SunEagle]

Short answer to your question : It looks like a lot of battery storage.

Slightly longer answer: More battery storage either as homeowner distributed storage or larger distributed storage owned/operated by the POCOs or owned by the state and managed by something like the CA PUC or by something called the Independent System Operator (the CA ISO), or a mix of all such measures and more.

Since you're asking, IMO only, and to the more immediate view of controlling and/or lowering the electric bills of Joe and Jane 6 pack, seems to me their best hope of lowering their energy costs lies in education followed by attitude adjustment and use reduction followed by sensible and cost-effective conservation measures.

However, and sad - to me anyway - and again IMO only, given the way things look to me, not much of that is likely to happen from homeowners. So, if storage has any future as part of the mix to reliable energy, we're back to again giving control of that portion of our lives to the powers that be and doing nothing more than bitching about our self-inflicted predicaments.

As Cassius said to Brutus: "The fault dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, that we are underlings".
I'd add that we're underlings largely by our own lack of volition.

Sad but true. Unless we can get people to find ways to reduce their consumption no amount of storage is going to keep all the lights on.

[J.P.M.]

I agree that energy storage is very important as we move toward renewable generation. But what does that look like and how much will it cost the basic homeowner?

Short answer to your question : It looks like a lot of battery storage.

Slightly longer answer: More battery storage either as homeowner distributed storage or larger distributed storage owned/operated by the POCOs or owned by the state and managed by something like the CA PUC or by something called the Independent System Operator (the CA ISO), or a mix of all such measures and more.

Since you're asking, IMO only, and to the more immediate view of controlling and/or lowering the electric bills of Joe and Jane 6 pack, seems to me their best hope of lowering their energy costs lies in education followed by attitude adjustment and use reduction followed by sensible and cost-effective conservation measures.

However, and sad - to me anyway - and again IMO only, given the way things look to me, not much of that is likely to happen from homeowners. So, if storage has any future as part of the mix to reliable energy, we're back to again giving control of that portion of our lives to the powers that be and doing nothing more than bitching about our self-inflicted predicaments.

As Cassius said to Brutus: "The fault dear Brutus, is not in our stars, But in ourselves, that we are underlings".
I'd add that we're underlings largely by our own lack of volition.

[Mike 134]

Until the cost of solar comes way down in my state like it has in other countries I will unfortunately never be able to justify installing it.

That is so true, I did a DIY and I still could not justify the cost, until the sale of the RECs was available to me to offset the price.

[SunEagle]

That is probably reason 37 why you should not buy an EV and reason number 8 why you should not put solar panels on your home.

Until the cost of solar comes way down in my state like it has in other countries I will unfortunately never be able to justify installing it.

Well I guess if the car manufacturers make less ICE vehicles then I might have to go the way of getting an EV and hope I will be able to charge it. At least as I get older I do not think I will be doing any long distance trips so maybe an EV will work for me.

[SunEagle]

We sure do and large storage capacity won't solve all the problems, but a large and distributed storage capacity will help the system handle short term spikes and generation shortcomings caused by variable and so less reliable output from renewables as well as some emergency situations like POCO shutdowns caused by wildfires.

Large storage capacity is not the answer to all the state's power problems, but the more storage there is the smoother the bumps will be and the easier the outages will be to manage.

I agree that energy storage is very important as we move toward renewable generation. But what does that look like and how much will it cost the basic homeowner?

[J.P.M.]

And what happens to the electric supply from solar if you get a bad storm or clouds or smoke from fires. My guess is your gird suffers.

We all have our weaknesses.

We sure do and large storage capacity won't solve all the problems, but a large and distributed storage capacity will help the system handle short term spikes and generation shortcomings caused by variable and so less reliable output from renewables as well as some emergency situations like POCO shutdowns caused by wildfires.

Large storage capacity is not the answer to all the state's power problems, but the more storage there is the smoother the bumps will be and the easier the outages will be to manage.

[Ampster]

And what happens to the electric supply from solar if you get a bad storm or clouds or smoke from fires. My guess is your gird suffers.
......

That is probably reason 37 why you should not buy an EV and reason number 8 why you should not put solar panels on your home.

[SunEagle]

And now just after Noon the capacity has grown to 47,700 MegaWatts and demand has grown to 29,500 MegaWatts. The unknown in those numbers is roof top solar which the grid only sees as lower demand.

And what happens to the electric supply from solar if you get a bad storm or clouds or smoke from fires. My guess is your gird suffers.

We all have our weaknesses.

[Ampster]

And now just after Noon the capacity has grown to 47,700 MegaWatts and demand has grown to 29,500 MegaWatts. The unknown in those numbers is roof top solar which the grid only sees as lower demand.

[J.P.M.]

Poor infrastructure? Have you looked at the load charts from your Independent System Operator? At 7:45 this morning California had 44,000 MegaWatts of capacity versus 25,000 in demand according to the California Independent System Operator. I will try to find a chart for twenty four hours. Last time I looked at the duck curve the critical time where capacity does not exceed demand by much margin is from five or six in the evening to ten at night. After that demand drops off significantly. I don't think it is an infrastructure issue but a timing issue.

CA, like most other U.S. markets could always use more generating capacity, but those figures of capacity vs. demand you show are a good example of why and perhaps how greater storage could help to alleviate some, but certainly not all of the problems.

[Ampster]

,,,,,,,,,, But other states will not be as prepared for the new charges.

Should I be glad I don't live in any of those other states? That is reason number 36 why you should not buy an EV.

[Ampster]

If there is enough infrastructure in Cal. why the need for "rolling Blackouts" last year?

It is a timing issue. No question California needs more capacity during that time. My point was that the best time to charge an EV is late at night when there is plenty of capacity. My rate from 4PM to 9PM is $.55 Per kWh. Why would I charge then?. My EV and my charge controller have timers so I can pick the cheaper times which are also when there is capacity. That is what most EV owners do.

[Mike 134]

If there is enough infrastructure in Cal. why the need for "rolling Blackouts" last year?

[SunEagle]

Poor infrastructure? Have you looked at the load charts from your Independent System Operator? At 7:45 this morning California had 44,000 MegaWatts of capacity versus 25,000 in demand according to the California Independent System Operator. I will try to find a chart for twenty four hours. Last time I looked at the duck curve the critical time where capacity does not exceed demand by much margin is from five or six in the evening to ten at night. After that demand drops off significantly. I don't think it is an infrastructure issue but a timing issue.

I am talking about other states where there has been a request to turn up the thermostats on the AC systems because the grid can't handle the load. Now add the millions of EV's being charge at night and those grids will fail

Hopefully the CA grids have improved enough to handle the added charging of all of those new EV's that are coming. But other states will not be as prepared for the new charges.