Solar soon in our future!

[khanh dam]

Yep, no permit needed to make a pergola in Charlotte, NC, but if you add solar panels to it all hell breaks loose, suddenly one has to spend $1500 in stamped engineered plans and another $350 to $600 for engineer to come inspect the thing was built per plans afterwards.

[J.P.M.]

solar warranties are mostly worthless because so many companies fail and are not around to offer a warranty 10 or 25 years latter. Sunpower, Tesla, Panasonic and LG MIGHT be around in 25 years, or maybe not. The solar panel company, and racking company I bought from 8 years ago are out of business.
Steep roofs are hard to work on, that is why I prefer ground arrays if you have the land and extra money. They can make nice shade spots too if you raise them up 8 feet like a picnic shelter.

The performance warranties with respect to panel output are little more than marketing tools.
A careful reading of any one of them will show that required details are unconfirmable without instrumentation and logs of weather and irradiance data which is seldom available. Besides, the performance bar for of most such warranties is so low you'll likely trip over it. Kind of like being required to run a 15 minute mile or get kicked off the track team.

Warranties against outright panel failure as opposed to performance shortfalls are a safe bet for the mfg. as panels seldom fail.

Warranties against inverter failure may have some use but all too often do not cover labor to getting at a micro or an optimizer in the middle of an array.

As for dual purpose array/shelter, a lot of jurisdictions treat picnic shelters as similar to structures fit for human occupancy and so may require different treatment for building code compliance. Just sayin'.

[khanh dam]

solar warranties are mostly worthless because so many companies fail and are not around to offer a warranty 10 or 25 years latter. Sunpower, Tesla, Panasonic and LG MIGHT be around in 25 years, or maybe not. The solar panel company, and racking company I bought from 8 years ago are out of business.
Steep roofs are hard to work on, that is why I prefer ground arrays if you have the land and extra money. They can make nice shade spots too if you raise them up 8 feet like a picnic shelter.

[SunEagle]

Are your panels and other equipment still warrantied when you do your own install? Aside from that I just don't feel comfortable on a 2 story roof anymore. I'm considering saving $13500 I was quoted for a installation of 11 windows on 2nd floor. I will rent scaffolding if I tackle that. I just feel better if a pro is up on my roof finding the rafters to mount panels securely. Besides that, if my roof does leak, they will be the one's coming back to fix it.

I would not put my trust into any warranty. But if you can find an electrician to do the install and the system is approved by the AHJ then I do not see why the POCO would object.

[kimo]

Are your panels and other equipment still warrantied when you do your own install? Aside from that I just don't feel comfortable on a 2 story roof anymore. I'm considering saving $13500 I was quoted for a installation of 11 windows on 2nd floor. I will rent scaffolding if I tackle that. I just feel better if a pro is up on my roof finding the rafters to mount panels securely. Besides that, if my roof does leak, they will be the one's coming back to fix it.

[SunEagle]

I thought tesla was offering $1.49 /watt solar on any roof?? I guess shipping panels to a remote island is not included?
Personally I would order a micro inverter kit and mount all the panels and hire an electrician to do the final ac hookup that would save the most money.

The problem most people run into is that the electrician may not install hardware that you purchased or the local AHJ may not approve the installation.

You can save money doing yourself but check out all of the local requirements and codes before you spend any money.

[khanh dam]

I thought tesla was offering $1.49 /watt solar on any roof?? I guess shipping panels to a remote island is not included?
Personally I would order a micro inverter kit and mount all the panels and hire an electrician to do the final ac hookup that would save the most money.

[J.P.M.]

I remember seeing stacks like that over by Port Allen Harbor. I think that is where the plant is? Yes never been much for leases, condo's or timeshares...lol

Yea, the plant is down near the end of Aka Ula St. from my old project notes/punch lists note. I remember it was a bitch getting the equipment down that road. That's when I came to really appreciate that rigging is an art.

Each silencer shipped in 2 pieces - body and stack with wind strakes. Final fit up/welding/assembly done at jobsite.
My understanding is they later put a PV plant next to the diesel generating station and now use the diesel units as backup with a lower duty cycle.

Thanx for the memory jog. Glad to see some of my kids still standing after so long.

Back on topic.

[kimo]

Thank you. I suspected the weather variability may have contributed to the output variation.

Avoiding a lease is, IMO only, a wise move.

Side bar: Back in the day, I was the responsible engineer for a portion of a major equipment upgrade to a small diesel fired power plant on Kauai. One unusual challenge for that project was the strict noise abatement requirement for most of the equipment, including the silencers for the diesel generators. They (the silencers) were about 90+ ft. tall as I seem to remember and looked a lot like smokestacks or distillation towers. Fun project. There's a picture of the silencers in situ someplace on the net.

I remember seeing stacks like that over by Port Allen Harbor. I think that is where the plant is? Yes never been much for leases, condo's or timeshares...lol

[PVAndy]

I think you are correct, but each Island has different electric providers, each with their own requirements and solar incentives. Here on Kauai KIUC is our electric provider and is a cooperative. I am just learning as I go. I think there are times when they will buy excess solar generated power or give a credit for it. But I'm trying to keep my system affordable since not desiring a lease program and want to pay cash for it.

I’ll be interested to find out what you learn. One of our engineers used to work in Hawaii

Andy

[J.P.M.]

I'm on the East side of Kauai so we get a bit more cloud cover here on average being this close to the wettest spot on earth, MT. Waialeale. I've owned the house a long time but only recently living here fulltime. So I cannot get a long term average on our monthly energy costs. But it did jump up considerably after running our new AC system on a daily basis. We are starting to cut back on the hours of daily use and turning the AC off if were out of the house for two or more hours.
When I put in my info on pvwatts the only number I changed was the cost per kwh. I know the bid sounds high compared to CA rates but it is on par with others here according to people I talked to. The only other bid I got was a pre paid solar lease. It came in at just under $30k my cost after they get the tax credit. Now that is for a full PV system 22 panels and 2 LG batteries. If I wasn't against getting into a lease, that would be something I would consider more.

Thanks for reply

Thank you. I suspected the weather variability may have contributed to the output variation.

Avoiding a lease is, IMO only, a wise move.

Side bar: Back in the day, I was the responsible engineer for a portion of a major equipment upgrade to a small diesel fired power plant on Kauai. One unusual challenge for that project was the strict noise abatement requirement for most of the equipment, including the silencers for the diesel generators. They (the silencers) were about 90+ ft. tall as I seem to remember and looked a lot like smokestacks or distillation towers. Fun project. There's a picture of the silencers in situ someplace on the net.

[kimo]

As far as I know net metering is no longer an option for Hawaii's solar customers, they have two programs to choose from: “Smart Export,” which requires an energy storage system that customers charge during the day and use for power at night, and “Customer Grid Supply Plus,” where they can export power to the grid throughout the day but receive less-enticing compensation.

Andy

I think you are correct, but each Island has different electric providers, each with their own requirements and solar incentives. Here on Kauai KIUC is our electric provider and is a cooperative. I am just learning as I go. I think there are times when they will buy excess solar generated power or give a credit for it. But I'm trying to keep my system affordable since not desiring a lease program and want to pay cash for it.

[PVAndy]

You are correct, I didn't include the tax incentives that knock a lot off this $17400 figure which will eventually make it more cost effective. Fed tax credit 22% and HI state credit 35% or max $5k, net cost @ $8500. Just over 5 years break even after applying tax credits.

As far as I know net metering is no longer an option for Hawaii's solar customers, they have two programs to choose from: “Smart Export,” which requires an energy storage system that customers charge during the day and use for power at night, and “Customer Grid Supply Plus,” where they can export power to the grid throughout the day but receive less-enticing compensation.

Andy

[kimo]

I think that SunEagle was trying to say that paying $17K and saving $1637 per year, you would need over 10 years to break even. It will break even faster if you can subtract 26% of the $17K due to government incentives. I'm not sure if they will apply to you and if you considered them in your calculations.

I have a friend in Hawaii who installed solar himself and saved a lot of money that way, but not everyone is capable or comfortable doing that.

You are correct, I didn't include the tax incentives that knock a lot off this $17400 figure which will eventually make it more cost effective. Fed tax credit 22% and HI state credit 35% or max $5k, net cost @ $8500. Just over 5 years break even after applying tax credits.

[bob-n]

I think that SunEagle was trying to say that paying $17K and saving $1637 per year, you would need over 10 years to break even. It will break even faster if you can subtract 26% of the $17K due to government incentives. I'm not sure if they will apply to you and if you considered them in your calculations.

I have a friend in Hawaii who installed solar himself and saved a lot of money that way, but not everyone is capable or comfortable doing that.