SDG&E Net Metering TOU Plans

[DrChaos]

I find this very interesting. I never considered the TOU-DR-P plan because of the RYU days. I will have to research this more.

Why are there so many SDGE plans? Why is it so complicated? I feel like this is some sick game that SDGE is playing with it's customers. Trying to confuse them with all this nonsense.

https://dilbert.com/strip/2010-11-21

One thing that's generally true: if they heavily advertise a rate plan then it's probably not in your favor. Like they push TOU-DR1 which has a higher on-peak penalty than TOU-DR (no 1 no 2 no nothing). And TOU-DR-P you have to figure out on your own the rules somewhere from TOU-DR for the utility infrastructure cost plus EECC rate sheets for the energy cost.

There's one rate plan that is great if you have an EV and no solar (EV-TOU-5).

[Ampster]

............
Why are there so many SDGE plans? Why is it so complicated? I feel like this is some sick game that SDGE is playing with it's customers. Trying to confuse them with all this nonsense.

Take a look at SCE or PG & E. It is no different. Part of the blame lies with the CPUC. However we are in a transition as more and more residential solar gets built. I once heard a CPUC commissioner say that they can predict the solar production from large solar farms but residential solar only shows up as reduced demand or load from residential users. Add to that the state Renewable Portfolio Standards and the 2020 Net Zero energy construction standards and it will continue to be a period of disruption for the Independently Owned Utilities in California.

[PugPower]

I find this very interesting. I never considered the TOU-DR-P plan because of the RYU days. I will have to research this more.

Why are there so many SDGE plans? Why is it so complicated? I feel like this is some sick game that SDGE is playing with it's customers. Trying to confuse them with all this nonsense.

[DrChaos]

TOU-DR-P has super off peak pricing during March and April from 10AM to 2PM when your PV is producing the most.This translates to a $0.11 difference between on and off-peak pricing during those months. Also SDGE currently promotes RYU potential times are from noon to 9 PM, but no more than 4 hours. The RYU is like a audible the POCO can call whenever it likes. IMO it's too much of an unknown.

RYU doesn't mean they will turn off your power necessarily, and everytime I experienced it, they gave a day notice by email or text. And I think it is only 2 to 6 pm. They advertise definitely 2.to 6pm on their website https://www.sdge.com/whenmatters and don't say it could be some other time. It's predictable enough for me and really rare---the otherwise 1c increase from off-peak to on-peak, plus lower super-off-peak for EV is very much worth it to me.

Commerical/industrial power users may have a less time-predictable high-demand rate but that's separate from RYU I think.

[J.P.M.]

TOU-DR-P has super off peak pricing during March and April from 10AM to 2PM when your PV is producing the most.This translates to a $0.11 difference between on and off-peak pricing during those months. Also SDGE currently promotes RYU potential times are from noon to 9 PM, but no more than 4 hours. The RYU is like a audible the POCO can call whenever it likes. IMO it's too much of an unknown.

Every SDG& E NEM 2.0 non grandfathered tariff has the March & April super off peak 10 A.M to 2 P.M. carveout.
RYU calls can be lucrative.
If a user deems the bill reduction realized by RYU to be a greater advantage or have more value than does the PITA factor of being without power in mostly unpredictable ways, then it becomes more viable.
My guess is a lot of folks will take the bait of what looks like a generous offer of a high reimbursement rate and then bitch like crazy when the power goes out while they're watching dumbfux news.

[PugPower]

Do you have solar? The RYU period is 2pm to 6pm and on those hours & days you'll be generating for sure, days will be long and skies clear. If I were in your position and had to work, I would run the A/C very cold until 2pm, turn it off, and hit the pub at 4:30. Turn AC back on at 6. Remember that TOU-DR-P on non-RYU peak hours are only 1 cent more than off-peak, this is a great benefit compared to DR-SES or EV-TOU2 or the others which have a big peak vs off-peak hit.

I was out of the house and made $10-$12 in credit per RYU day, and my system has an inverter max of 3.8 kW.

And as I have an EV, the 10c gap (vs typical 6c on most other plans) in summer off-peak generation time vs super-off-peak consumption is beneficial too. I'm going into winter with $360 of NEM credit with 785 kWh of net generation since my true up. That's like getting 45.8c/kWh for my generation, way higher than the rate plans.

Anyway what I think has happened this year is more utility-scale solar supply. And that's not going to stop, there may no longer be any RYU days. Bet the utility will then try to can TOU-DR-P, so get on it while you can.

TOU-DR-P has super off peak pricing during March and April from 10AM to 2PM when your PV is producing the most.This translates to a $0.11 difference between on and off-peak pricing during those months. Also SDGE currently promotes RYU potential times are from noon to 9 PM, but no more than 4 hours. The RYU is like a audible the POCO can call whenever it likes. IMO it's too much of an unknown.

[Ampster]

...............,

Anyway what I think has happened this year is more utility-scale solar supply. And that's not going to stop, there may no longer be any RYU days. Bet the utility will then try to can TOU-DR-P, so get on it while you can.

Interesting, I got several Critical Peak Pricing this year with some properties in SCE service area. One meter has solar on a NEMV account so it is hard to tell what if any benefit I got. I also haven't really looked at the duck curve recently to see if there is any correlation.

[DrChaos]

TOU-DR-P is great if you can observe those RYU days, if not there is a hefty penalty of $1.16 per kWh. OUCH!. I work from home and I know SDGE pulls out the RYU card on the extremely hottest days of the year, so that's no gonna work for me. If I remember correctly there were quite a few RYU days in 2017-2018. None so far this year. Wonder what happened?

Do you have solar? The RYU period is 2pm to 6pm and on those hours & days you'll be generating for sure, days will be long and skies clear. If I were in your position and had to work, I would run the A/C very cold until 2pm, turn it off, and hit the pub at 4:30. Turn AC back on at 6. Remember that TOU-DR-P on non-RYU peak hours are only 1 cent more than off-peak, this is a great benefit compared to DR-SES or EV-TOU2 or the others which have a big peak vs off-peak hit.

I was out of the house and made $10-$12 in credit per RYU day, and my system has an inverter max of 3.8 kW.

And as I have an EV, the 10c gap (vs typical 6c on most other plans) in summer off-peak generation time vs super-off-peak consumption is beneficial too. I'm going into winter with $360 of NEM credit with 785 kWh of net generation since my true up. That's like getting 45.8c/kWh for my generation, way higher than the rate plans.

Anyway what I think has happened this year is more utility-scale solar supply. And that's not going to stop, there may no longer be any RYU days. Bet the utility will then try to can TOU-DR-P, so get on it while you can.

[PugPower]

TOU-DR-P is great if you can observe those RYU days, if not there is a hefty penalty of $1.16 per kWh. OUCH!. I work from home and I know SDGE pulls out the RYU card on the extremely hottest days of the year, so that's no gonna work for me. If I remember correctly there were quite a few RYU days in 2017-2018. None so far this year. Wonder what happened?

[DrChaos]

Agreed, lifestyle change is a big factor in choosing a TOU rate. For me personally, I refuse to allow SDGE to dictate when I do laundry or other energy intensive activities. I could shift my load to off-peak or super-off-peak, but I do not feel I should have to. I will try to do laundry before 4PM or after 9PM, but if I can't under TOU-DR plan the penalty is minimal and will probably be offset by any excess generation I have at the end of my true-up period.

I use TOU-DR-P with an EV & solar. Except on the occasional "Reduce Your Use" days, the on-peak vs off-peak difference is about 0.01. And as nobody is at home during RYU hours (which occur occasional called summer weekdays 2 to 6pm, none in 2019), I can actually get great credit from solar generation.

Much less stress than when the on-peak vs off peak is .20 or .25 c difference.

[J.P.M.]

Agreed, lifestyle change is a big factor in choosing a TOU rate. For me personally, I refuse to allow SDGE to dictate when I do laundry or other energy intensive activities. I could shift my load to off-peak or super-off-peak, but I do not feel I should have to. I will try to do laundry before 4PM or after 9PM, but if I can't under TOU-DR plan the penalty is minimal and will probably be offset by any excess generation I have at the end of my true-up period.

Well, it's one determining factor in the choice matrix.

And hail the freedom to choose.

Is this a great country or what ?

[PugPower]

Agreed, lifestyle change is a big factor in choosing a TOU rate. For me personally, I refuse to allow SDGE to dictate when I do laundry or other energy intensive activities. I could shift my load to off-peak or super-off-peak, but I do not feel I should have to. I will try to do laundry before 4PM or after 9PM, but if I can't under TOU-DR plan the penalty is minimal and will probably be offset by any excess generation I have at the end of my true-up period.

[J.P.M.]

JPM, I realize that the tiered rate is better n most cases, but if you enter into a Net Metering with SDGE now, you must go to TOU.

I'm very aware that the old tiered rate tariffs are not available to those residential users w/PV under NEM 2.0. I'm on NEM 1.0 and sch DR with the old and simple tiered rate schedule is still available to me - but, like all other NEM 1.0 SDG & E customers, I had to actively opt out of being switched over to DR-SES which is the default tariff sch. for all SDG & E customers with NEM 1.0 or 2.0.

However, and depending on usage quantity and usage patterns, a T.O.U. tariff may or may not result in a lower annual electric bill over any 12 billing periods. A user's got to get the numbers, either by doing it on their own or having it done for them (by the POCO for example).

Sch DR, the old tiered rate tariff, is (slightly) better for me mostly because my net usage after solar generation per billing period, and so annual net usage, always stays in tier one. If so, at current sch. DR rates, my per kWh rate for everything I do buy from SDG & E is priced at $0.29233/kWh in summer and $0.26627/kWh in winter with a side bonus: I don't need to fart around with things like doing laundry between midnite and 6 A.M, etc. or curtailing activities during peak hours.

A slight disadvantage for me by staying on sch. DR: Again, mostly because of low net usage, most of my excess generation for any billing period is valued at those same low rates. That means I lose out on some peak generation rate if I was on T.O.U., but it's about $20/yr. or so. Long, boring calc.

As for tariff schedules that combine or blend a T.O.U. rate and a tiered rate by layering a tiered rate over a T.O.U. rate, as, for example, with sch. TOU-DR, and again, depending on usage pattern and net use after solar generation, that too may or may not result in the lowest annual electric bill when comparing options. Then too, like all time dependent rate schedules, and also the customer's temperament and rate awareness, a value for the PITA factor for time shifting needs to be applied.

Users would be well advised of the need to compare all rate options by doing so on their own after getting familiar with how POCO's charge for their product on their own and hoping they get it at least close to right or, if annual electric bill size is the only consideration, trust their POCO to do it for them and for that POCO to be not only honest about it, but calc. it in ways that reflect reality.

Either or any way, any result, even done knowledgably and with care will always be a loose approximation if for no other reasons than:
- PV system output is highly dependent on variable weather
- Usage quantity and patterns can and probably will vary both short and long term
- POCO rates and rate schedules will change.

I always start by always remembering that I don't pay for what I don't use either by lifestyle changes or common sense use reduction and conservation efforts, and then look for ways to minimize the cost of what I do buy after turning stuff off and buttoning up the house as much as my lifestyle suits and allows.

[Ampster]

................. prices per kwh shouldn't really matter, it's more about trying to get the least differential between on and off peak prices.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

That depends on your load profile and if you are able to load shift now or in the future.
It sounds like you have picked a plan that works for your load profile as you understand it today. That seems to be the conclusion of @RichardCullip. He had the advantage of his installer running his load profile against various rate scenerios. If your installer can do that it would give you more insight into your load profile.

Rates and the TOU time periods that those rates are based on will most likely change over time and they are not likely to favor solar generation. In order to optimize the return on your system it is useful to be aware of usage patterns as they affect your future bill's. Solar production can be estimated somewhat consistently subject to weather and soiling. Usage may change, for example if you buy an EV or add some other large electrical load.

For example, I drive an EV and have electric water heating. I also have Air Conditioning loads during the summer. What I look for is the largest differential between peak and off peak rates. My theory is to sell as much generation (inverted power) as possible during peak and shift loads to the lowest rate.

[PugPower]

JPM, I realize that the tiered rate is better n most cases, but if you enter into a Net Metering with SDGE now, you must go to TOU.