Is it worth it to pay $250 to have the Installer License account for Enphase IQ Envoy

[Ampster]

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There are reasons you might want to do it like an east/west array or limited electric service, but efficiency is not one of them.

I think it was a cost effective decision for the installer. I paid for a 5.8kW system. My metric was cost per kW of capacity. They did give me a performance guarantee which was similar to what PVWatts had predicted. Initially I didn't pay attention to that detail. After the install, when I noticed the clipping I asked for an explanation. They ran scenarios that showed only 400kWh difference which financially was about $100 per year. In hindsight what I wish I had done was spec a 6.0 kW system which would have put me into a 5kW inverter at a DC to AC ratio of 1.2 to 1.

[ButchDeal]

You could be right. Ironically it was the Solaredge software that told them that they could run it at a DC to AC ratio of 1.50 to 1. A few months earlier at another location I had to replace a fried Xantrex invert and decided to go with a Solaredge. The supplier suggested a 5kW for a 4.3 STC system. I asked him about a 3.8kW which was a few hundred less expensive. He told me the 5.0 would be better. Buyer beware.

Yes you CAN run at a 1.5 ratio. That does not mean it is the most efficient thing to do, it just means that you will not void the warranty if you do that.
There are reasons you might want to do it like an east/west array or limited electric service, but efficiency is not one of them.

[Ampster]

Sorry but several people are wrong. Solaredge has a very flat efficiency curve so there would be very little extra production by using a smaller inverter, and a lot of lost production in the clipping. Other inverters have more of a curve to their efficiency but solaredge not so much. There is little reason to undersize a solaredge inverter with the main exception being added costs for electrical changes at some inflection points of the interconnection.... but not efficiency.

You could be right. Ironically it was the Solaredge software that told them that they could run it at a DC to AC ratio of 1.50 to 1. A few months earlier at another location I had to replace a fried Xantrex invert and decided to go with a Solaredge. The supplier suggested a 5kW for a 4.3 STC system. I asked him about a 3.8kW which was a few hundred less expensive. He told me the 5.0 would be better. Buyer beware.

[ButchDeal]

The micro inverter is clipping the energy past 295W. My SolarEdge does the same thing. I used to look at it as lost power and it is, but there is an explanation. What is not as obvious is that during the ramp up your inverter is getting to its most efficient point sooner and what is lost at the top is made up in overall production. I had to have my installer model the production of my inverter vs a larger inverter before I believed the result. Several knowledgeable people on another forum confirmed that theory.

Sorry but several people are wrong. Solaredge has a very flat efficiency curve so there would be very little extra production by using a smaller inverter, and a lot of lost production in the clipping. Other inverters have more of a curve to their efficiency but solaredge not so much. There is little reason to undersize a solaredge inverter with the main exception being added costs for electrical changes at some inflection points of the interconnection.... but not efficiency.

[Ampster]

Epiphany2000 when I look at Enlighten Manager for the panel/microinverter detail level, i'm seeing accross all of my Microinverter, it says that "Maximum Produced 290W" to may 292W, none of my microinverter goes pass 295W. I'm just curious if all of your panels are similar? Cause I thought the Panasonic panels that we have are 330W panels, so shouldn't it produce close to that value?
....

The micro inverter is clipping the energy past 295W. My SolarEdge does the same thing. I used to look at it as lost power and it is, but there is an explanation. What is not as obvious is that during the ramp up your inverter is getting to its most efficient point sooner and what is lost at the top is made up in overall production. I had to have my installer model the production of my inverter vs a larger inverter before I believed the result. Several knowledgeable people on another forum confirmed that theory.

[Lvb]

Success for me as well! Many thanks to MrDodge and Lvb for the instructions.

Lvb, what screenshots are you interested in? I'll hasten to say that all the smoke in the air has really done a number on my production. Even before the Camp Fire, my daily production had taken a significant drop from when the panels were initially installed, likely due to less sunshine and shorter days.

Thanks again, guys. Enlighten Manager is cool (especially at this price )!

Epiphany2000 when I look at Enlighten Manager for the panel/microinverter detail level, i'm seeing accross all of my Microinverter, it says that "Maximum Produced 290W" to may 292W, none of my microinverter goes pass 295W. I'm just curious if all of your panels are similar? Cause I thought the Panasonic panels that we have are 330W panels, so shouldn't it produce close to that value?

I'm attaching my screenshot so you know exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks

[Epiphany2000]

Success for me as well! Many thanks to MrDodge and Lvb for the instructions.

Lvb, what screenshots are you interested in? I'll hasten to say that all the smoke in the air has really done a number on my production. Even before the Camp Fire, my daily production had taken a significant drop from when the panels were initially installed, likely due to less sunshine and shorter days.

Thanks again, guys. Enlighten Manager is cool (especially at this price )!

[Lvb]

I have the same access. I can't seem to get into of the diagnostic tools, however. It just lags ("Please wait, loading").

I can also access the same interface by simply entering the local IP of the envoy in my browser.

envoy.jpg

Epiphany2000, try to see if u can use my last post and get free manager access to your panels. When you're done, I'd like to do some performance comparison (on panel detail level) with you since we have the exact equipment models.

[Lvb]

Thanks for that info. I tried but got stuck at step 6: when i tried to add my email that was signed up as self installer, it gave me an error "The user cannot be granted access to this system. This system has a maintainer on record." and won't let me grant access to that new account. Any idea?

Nm, I found a work around. I think Enphase knows about the steps above to get access to Enlighten Manager, so they fixed it. However, I found a glitch in their fix.

So I reverted step 6 first (adding a new user to your system). Then go back and do step 1 to 5. Then step 7, when i log into the new account. I now have Enlighten Manager.

Hope this will help other fellas.

[Lvb]

Lvb, I bookmarked this page over a year ago for the useful information it contained, specifically post #181. Your Welcome


[URL="https://forum.solar-electric.com/discussion/5439/enphase-data-access/p6"]Enphase Data Access - Page 6

Thanks for that info. I tried but got stuck at step 6: when i tried to add my email that was signed up as self installer, it gave me an error "The user cannot be granted access to this system. This system has a maintainer on record." and won't let me grant access to that new account. Any idea?

[J.P.M.]

Hahha... you're totally on point!!! Judy after 2 weeks and my wife started not to turn off any lights. She just leave them on as she walk away... for now, i check the energy production almost 3, 4 times a day.

i have 7.26kw system size and can only get between 26 to 30 kwH a day now. What's about everyone else?

I'm wondering how much i'd in the summer time.

Run PVWatts and model your output. Just read the help/info screens a couple of times before you start and use a 10 % system loss parameter instead of the 14 % default number the model uses. Get the array orientation model inputs close to actual and after a few runs you'll have all of your output questions addressed.


PV system output is like the weather. Day/day output will vary a lot, or a little. Long term trends like cold weather in winter or less PV output in winter are to be expected. Just know that the model is NOT a predictor of performance. It's a tool for modeling long term ( Like 10 years or so) output for purposes of system design.

As the model's help/info screens will tell you, actual monthly or 30 day system output will probably be +/- 30% of model output for the same period, probably closer. Yearly actual system output will probably be within 10 % +/- % of model output, probably somewhat better.

Sort of like the difference between climate and weather - Climate (model output) is what you expect. Weather (actual weather dependent system output) is what you get.

[Lvb]

Regarding whether or not it is worth paying the $250 for additional monitoring access...I too considered this option about 3 years ago after installing an Enphase microinverter array. My answer would be "no", as the interest tends to wane. Checking production every day soon turns to checking a couple times a week, then just on the casual whim. I've read this is a common tendency among solar owners. Your bigger concern will be getting your better half to turn off electronics (lights, tv's, etc.) he/she is not using. You will likely hear "But honey, we have solar!". It's a slippery argument. Good luck trying to explain!

Hahha... you're totally on point!!! Judy after 2 weeks and my wife started not to turn off any lights. She just leave them on as she walk away... for now, i check the energy production almost 3, 4 times a day.

i have 7.26kw system size and can only get between 26 to 30 kwH a day now. What's about everyone else?

I'm wondering how much i'd in the summer time.

[Steve C]

Regarding whether or not it is worth paying the $250 for additional monitoring access...I too considered this option about 3 years ago after installing an Enphase microinverter array. My answer would be "no", as the interest tends to wane. Checking production every day soon turns to checking a couple times a week, then just on the casual whim. I've read this is a common tendency among solar owners. Your bigger concern will be getting your better half to turn off electronics (lights, tv's, etc.) he/she is not using. You will likely hear "But honey, we have solar!". It's a slippery argument. Good luck trying to explain!

[Lvb]

I have the same access. I can't seem to get into of the diagnostic tools, however. It just lags ("Please wait, loading").

I can also access the same interface by simply entering the local IP of the envoy in my browser.

envoy.jpg

I just found out that while you're on the Local Envoy interface, when accessing diagnostic tools/Wifi/Ethernet configuration, the login is:

Username: envoy
Password: last 6 digits of your Envoy Serial Number.

[Epiphany2000]

I have the same access. I can't seem to get into of the diagnostic tools, however. It just lags ("Please wait, loading").

I can also access the same interface by simply entering the local IP of the envoy in my browser.

envoy.jpg