Connecticut looking to end net metering.

[Sunking]

They'd scream bloody murder.

What do you call subsidies that give you are 1000% ROI every year? Well if it were a biz would be one hell of investment and likely illegal sort of like racketeering. What you cal fossil fuel an dnuke subsidies are the best investments the government makes.


What do you call subsidies that have no ROI and lost a trillion dollars? In biz would be a SCAM. You cannot drop solar panels on Russia, China, and the Middle East.

[Sunking]

Huh, so all the sun power I use internally at my house isn't reducing fossil fuel consumption?

Nope not one drop. The power plant was still on line burning fuel, you just made it more inefficient and wasted power never used.

[jflorey2]

I'm all for leveling the playing field and getting rid of tariffs and subsidies, but lets be fair about it. The utilities then ought to pay the full cost of their burning coal and atoms.

They'd scream bloody murder.

I have a simpler proposal. End net metering. End any and all subsidies for other forms of energy. Level the playing field completely. Want to drill for oil? Buy the land first, like anyone else who wants the use of it. Want to mine for coal? Buy the land - and if you destroy any watersheds on anyone _else's_ land, well, we'll see you in court. Want to sell it afterwards? Well, you might not want to damage it irreparably, then. Want to have a coal fired power plant? Fine - meet BACT standards for the best fossil fuel plant out there, and hold every such plant to the same standard. No special exceptions for dirty power plants. Or maybe you really, really want to pollute so you can buy your CEO a new jet. OK - pay for every bit of damage your pollution causes. Want to open a nuclear power plant? No problem. Pay for your own insurance.

I can just hear all the right wingers now. "End net metering and tax breaks for renewables! Yay! Take that, Al Gore! And then . . . but wait . . . . we NEED coal power, and it's not fair that we have to pay for damages . . . and those cheap leases are where all our profit comes from!" Too bad, so sad. Goose and gander and all that.

[reader2580]

Never reduced a drop in fossil fuel consumption and a failed policy. That is what a SCAM is. All those billions of tax dollars and nothing to show for it. Lot of people got rich, but the goberment (tax payers) gets nothing for the investment, just a bill.

Huh, so all the sun power I use internally at my house isn't reducing fossil fuel consumption? Heck, my solar array was only producing about 400 watts today due to a snow storm, yet it was still producing more power than my house was using while I was outside clearing the driveway.

[Sunking]

I fail to understand how someone has over 20,000 posts on a solar forum if they think solar is a scam.

The whole reason we have net metering was to push residential homeowners to adopt solar to reduce fossil fuel use.

Never reduced a drop in fossil fuel consumption and a failed policy. That is what a SCAM is. All those billions of tax dollars and nothing to show for it. Lot of people got rich, but the goberment (tax payers) gets nothing for the investment, just a bill.

[DanS26]

Farmers won't burn ethonol in their vehicles.....they know better.
Teachers home school their kids.....they know better.
Doctors don't die in a hospital or nursing home....they know better.
Accountants don't buy mutual funds.....they know better.
Solar pros don't buy Sunpower.......they know better.
The list goes on.......I think I see a pattern here.

[bcroe]

I have another example of what you speak of......ethanol production.

The government mandates a certain percentage of ethanol be blended with gasoline. This supports the price of corn and supports a prosperous industry in rural America. Nearly 50% of corn production is now sent into ethanol production and farmers are now dependent on this gravy train.

Its worse than that. Farmers here have practically stopped growing other crops, going
to all corn. The soil won't take that forever.

On the other hand, seems like farmers have gotten a lot of bad deals in the market. I
don't like the kind of debt they must carry to stay in business. Bruce Roe

[DanS26]

The whole reason we have net metering was to push residential homeowners to adopt solar to reduce fossil fuel use. I bet the residential solar market would be 20% of the size it is without net metering. States that dropped net metering saw new residential solar installations drop by large percentages. Many of the large players simply stopped doing business in states without net metering.

If bet metering is fair or not is a separate discussion. There are all kinds of things that power companies are forced to do by states that power companies don't like. The power companies in Minnesota were required to buy power from biomass plants at a cost that was higher than other sources of power. The state dropped that requirement this year and now the plants are all closing. The cities that hosted these plants are up in arms because they are all small rural cities and the plants were large employers and sources of tax dollars. The state also has a very high requirement for utilities to provide electricity from wind and solar.

I have another example of what you speak of......ethanol production.

The government mandates a certain percentage of ethanol be blended with gasoline. This supports the price of corn and supports a prosperous industry in rural America. Nearly 50% of corn production is now sent into ethanol production and farmers are now dependent on this gravy train.

Here's the irony. Every day I drive by the local farm supply store with the CountryMark gas station outside. A large well lit sign at least 10' high by 20' long states "No ethanol in our gas!" That station is always filled with customers.

I get a chuckle every day seeing farmers taking the subsidy dollars but rejecting the product.

[ButchDeal]

The problem is that all Fed taxes goes into a big bucket. If some of that goes back to the people that gave it then there is less to spend to cover services for the rest of the country. That may cause a shortfall so some services are no longer covered.

It is a matter of perspective but to me that means someone else is taking funds to line their pockets and I lose out on some government services like NOAA which funds were recently cut and may affect my well being if their is less than the right coverage during a hurricane.

The question some people have is "Should the people that make more income pay less taxes then the rest of the country through rebates and deductions?"

Yes I see that that is ( damn this forum and stupid software)

[SunEagle]

Except the tax rebate it is not taking from someone else. It is quite litterally NOT taking from the recipient or anyone else. It is a credit on what the recipient would have paid....

The problem is that all Fed taxes goes into a big bucket. If some of that goes back to the people that gave it then there is less to spend to cover services for the rest of the country. That may cause a shortfall so some services are no longer covered.

It is a matter of perspective but to me that means someone else is taking funds to line their pockets and I lose out on some government services like NOAA which funds were recently cut and may affect my well being if their is less than the right coverage during a hurricane.

The question some people have is "Should the people that make more income pay less taxes then the rest of the country through rebates and deductions?"

[reader2580]

The whole reason we have net metering was to push residential homeowners to adopt solar to reduce fossil fuel use. I bet the residential solar market would be 20% of the size it is without net metering. States that dropped net metering saw new residential solar installations drop by large percentages. Many of the large players simply stopped doing business in states without net metering.

If bet metering is fair or not is a separate discussion. There are all kinds of things that power companies are forced to do by states that power companies don't like. The power companies in Minnesota were required to buy power from biomass plants at a cost that was higher than other sources of power. The state dropped that requirement this year and now the plants are all closing. The cities that hosted these plants are up in arms because they are all small rural cities and the plants were large employers and sources of tax dollars. The state also has a very high requirement for utilities to provide electricity from wind and solar.

[ButchDeal]

Anything the government gives to you, they took from somebody else. (I'm bitter and doing my taxes today)

Except the tax rebate it is not taking from someone else. It is quite litterally NOT taking from the recipient or anyone else. It is a credit on what the recipient would have paid....

[Mike90250]

I fail to understand how someone has over 20,000 posts on a solar forum if they think solar is a scam.

I think he misspoke The fraudulent sales pitches, Tax rebates and subsidized Utility rates are the scam.

Oh, I'm getting something for free. Anything the government gives to you, they took from somebody else. (I'm bitter and doing my taxes today)

[DanS26]

Buy all, sell all is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. I couldn't imagine anyone wanting to install new solar in such a situation. If I was forced into buy all, sell all I would strongly consider just turning my solar system off.

A much fairer way to deal with solar would be to buy excess power at wholesale rates instead of retail. My CO-OP pays approximately 7.5 cents per KWh for wholesale power and sells the power for 12 cents per KWh in the winter and 13 cents per KWh in the summer. I currently have net metering and it appears unlikely to change any time soon. I have enough solar production to cover at least 150% of my usage so I still come out okay if net metering goes away.

Net metering is a gift.....and all of you who benefit from this gift should thank your lucky stars.

What you describe is net billing and it is the future for residential and small commercial solar producers.

[reader2580]

Because it is a SCAM.

I fail to understand how someone has over 20,000 posts on a solar forum if they think solar is a scam.