I'd respectfully add, and only with the intent of perhaps avoiding some confusion and reiterate that the rates shown in this post are the grandfathered rates ("GR").
SDG & E customers adding PV now will not get these rates and will instead be subject to the newer "non grandfathered" rates and times.
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Just to be clear, the EV-TOU2 sheet you linked doesn't show the (GR) version of the tariff. Here are both GR versions.
EV-TOU2_GR.JPG
DR-SES-GR.JPG
The difference between them is small... the multiplier is *slightly* better on EV-TOU2 (1.78 vs 1.74), but because the peak and off-peak hours aren't identical between them, the optimal choice is probably very consumption pattern specific (as it has always been).
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Ok, a quick look at some data from my system, overlaying the tariffs indicated on actual metering from 7/2016 - 6/2017.
DR-SES, 3/1/17
NEM Charges 544
NEM Credits 606
Net -62
DR-SES (GR), 12/1/17
NEM Charges 546
NEM Credits 600
Net -53
This isn't a validated spreadsheet yet, but at least the first cut looks like grandfathering did what it was supposed to (for me).Leave a comment:
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Charlie:
I just finished and checked a new spreadsheet for how much revenue (separate from use) that an array will generate in N. County using PVWatts with 10 % system losses and Miramar TMY3 data.
Lots of info, but Readers's Digest version for now is that a south facing array at 20 deg. tilt and using the new (12/01/2017) DR - SES rate schedule with 12/01/2017 rates and times for new (non grandfathered) users will produce about $433/yr. or so of revenue to offset an electric bill per installed STC kW of PV.
Using the same orientations and data with the (12/01/2017 newly published) grandfathered rates and times, the annual revenue generation is ~~ $512/yr. per installed STC kW for 180 deg. azimuth and 20 deg. tilt.
So, the rates for new systems under the new rates will cause systems to generate ~~ 18 % or so less revenue than under the grandfathered rates.
I had done the same comparison using proposed DR - SES rates and times and got similar but smaller (lower $$ revenue generation) numbers, and a larger % increase, grandfathered vs. non-grandfathered rates) of ~~ 20-24 % depending on orientation from old to new rates and times.
The difference now, based on published and effective rates/times has the new rates/times generating more revenue than the old rates for either the grandfathered or non grandfathered rates (but again, less overall revenue with the new rates when compared to the old non-grandfathered rates , but that's mostly due to the pre - 12/01/2017 rates hourly rates (the proposed but not approved rates) being lower than the post 12/01/2017 rates (the approved rates) for both grandfathered and non-grandfathered rates.
I was thinking of your situation while I was doing this as you're the only one I know building and planning an array in N. County at this time.
BTW, best orientation to max. out revenue for you under the new and non grandfathered rates ~ 185 deg. azimuth and ~ 30 deg. tilt. The revenue generation at that orientation using the above assumptions is ~ $517//yr. per installed STC kW for the grandfathered rates, and about 203 deg. az. and about 30 deg. az. for the new (non grandfathered ) rates which will produce ~ $440/yr. in revenue per STC kW. As you can see, and as I'll fill in some blanks in the near future, orientation, +/- 10-15 deg. in azimuth off optimum and +/- 5-10 deg. off optimum in tilt is not real critical to revenue generation. Also note that revenue generation for west facing is way down from south facing or optimum as it's always been. More to follow on thatLeave a comment:
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This new DR-SES (GF) certainly eliminates the huge gain to be had from May - Oct non hot days where one could bank some serious peak $ credits. I'll have to go back and take a look at this years usage laid onto this new schedule. Even so, my best guess estimate is still that DR-SES (GF) is better for me than DR-SES, but I'll have to try to run this years data through a new spreadsheet model.Leave a comment:
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I looked into SDG&E rates again now that they updated after Dec 1st. For my purposes, I have an EV now, and will have solar in 3-4 months, I think that TOU-DR-P is the best plan for me, and better than EV-TOU2 or DR-SES (which are now almost identical). I don't think I can grandfather anything so assuming all rates are new.
The TOU-DR-P doesn't have a single rate sheet, you get the distribution components from TOU-DR, and then the electrical costs from here: http://regarchive.sdge.com/tm2/pdf/E...C-TOU-DR-P.pdf
The main new feature I noted is that on TOU-DR-P the gap between semi-peak (when most generation would occur) and super-off-peak in summer is greater than other schedules including TOU-DR, DR-SES and EV-TOU2. So for charging an EV at night that's what you want.
Also, the "RYU adder"---penalty on critical days, has a time period from 2pm to 6pm---and as these would almost always be hot summer weekdays, you'd be generating if you can avoid using A/C and earning $1.16 extra per kWh net generation.
I think if you size yourself to stay within the baseline net, TOU-DR-P is a good option for SDG&E. BTW I'm now shocked at peak rates over 50c it's insane. Much higher than LADWP.
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Hi All,
I've been following this thread closely in anticipation of the Dec 1 "deadline" for switching to TOU to be grandfathered into the "old" schedule. I'm on NEM ST and I was told by SDG&E that if I didn't switch by yesterday, I would only be able to be on the new schedule. Anticipating an EV in the near future, I wanted to be grandfathered into the old schedule and switch to the EV-TOU2 rate, and it looked like the only way to do that was to switch to the DR-SES rate for now. The representative I talked to wasn't sure if I would be able to switch to EV-TOU2 before staying on DR-SES for one year, but I figured that the rates themselves were fairly close (with EV-TOU2 being slightly less for the super off-peak). Plus, I was told I would always have the option to switch back to Tiered for 5 years (assuming they don't figure out a way to cut Tiered off before that, which sounds like a distinct possibility (I'm reading possibly 2019?)).
Anyway, the new rates came out today, and not unexpectedly, SDG&E has reset the DR-SES (GF) rates so that on-peak and semi-peak are basically the same high rate ($0.42953 and $0.42935 respectively) rendering the old schedule somewhat moot. >
But I'm hoping I can get onto the EV-TOU2 rate while maintaining the same schedule because there's still a bigger spread between on-peak and semi-peak, but I'm also scheduled to get a battery soon (I hope... Waiting for the powerwall 2 is a different topic)
Reference:
DR-SES rates: https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/f...es%20Table.pdf
EV-TOU2 rates: https://www.sdge.com/sites/default/f...s%20Tables.pdf
Am I reading those correctly? I kind of wish I switched to DR-SES earlier now to have banked up some $ while the rates were more favorable. I am generating a lot more than I'm using (at least during the summer, not so much now) as I sized the system in anticipation of an EV. I just got PTO over the summer.
Did I make the right choice? It looks like I can cancel my pricing plan change for 20 days, but I think I'll lose the TOU grandfathering.
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Sensij: Appreciate your billing confusion. FWIW, and pardon my presumption if yo've already done this, one thing I did with DR - TOU that seems to make the tier overlay a bit more manageable for me was to do it a bit backwards. That is, calc the entire usage without the lower baseline credit and then subtract that amount out of the higher sum before adding in taxes. Adjust accordingly when billing period usage is less than billing period baseline allowance. Same will go for supercharge usage > 400 % of baseline allowance. I'm still fooling with it off/on as DR - TOU is not a high priority for me at this time, but it seems to work similar to how I calc tiered rate bills.Leave a comment:
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I've run numbers on TOU-DR, but it was never competitive with the mid-day peak TOU offered by DR-SES and EV-TOU-2. It might be worth dusting that spreadsheet off now, to see how it compares to the new hours. The baseline is applied to net consumption.
If you get PTO before the end of March, you *should* have the option to elect the tiered plan even though you are less than one year into TOU. You should expect to keep the tiered plan for 5 years based on what is written in the tariffs, unless a more favorable TOU plan is released in the meantime (there are a variety of plans in development).
You can think of the minimum bill as at least $120 you will owe at true up. Individual monthly bills may present it differently, but part of the true up process is to adjust the minimum bill component you were charged on the monthly basis and make sure it reflects your entire year's balance. You can't offset the minimum bill with retail generation credit. Excess generation credit (paid at wholesale rates) will reduce it, but the PV capacity to generate those credits is expensive. The CA climate credit, and the EV credit that SDGE pays will also count, but those would have otherwise been cash in your pocket.Leave a comment:
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All good questions. I think you should call SDG&E and ask them, as no one else can do anything but speculate at this point. I don't even know if tiered is going to continue to be an option for much longer. I switched to DR-SES before the NEM 1.0 grandfathering deadline so all I'm sure of is that I'll have the old TOU schedule until 2021; after that who knows?
I looked briefly at how to compute a bill with tier+TOU and gave up in confusion. In theory the SDG&E website would allow you to compare pricing on different plans based on past usage, but I don't think it works if you aren't eligible to switch plans.
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Newbie in SDG&E asking for your advice.
I am currently on EV-TOU2 as I have an EV which I charge super off peak or mostly off peak and am not home in weekdays. I just signed a contract to begin solar installation but it likely will not have PTO before early next year, probably Feb.
I received a letter from SDG&E that my TOU periods *will* be changing next week on Dec 1st. Previously the 12-6pm peak seemed ideal for me to go solar with a large price difference half the year, but now it's far worse, and I may be home and use electricity from 6-9 most days. In addition, the SDG&E website says I cannot change my rate plan until the 1 year of selecting EV-TOU2 is up, which is 6/23/2018.
So then, what is the best rate & negotiation strategy for SDG&E for me? Assuming I get PTO before the 3/31 next year deadline, can I go back to the 12-6pm time period and keep it for 5 years? If not, what should I do? Can I switch to tiered DR even before my 1 year is up with EVTOU because I am starting solar?
I looked at the DR-SES rate structure and despite being called out for solar energy, it looked lousy for me, as the peak rates would be when I would be using more and generating less. But the TOU-DR rate seemed like it might be better---because I would generate enough power to keep any net demand (or likely surplus) under my baseline. But I have not seen anybody discuss the use of TOU-DR with solar and I've done lots of Googling. The on-peak is about 5 cents more than the off peak, whereas on DR-SES the difference is much larger. The numbers are high with TOU-DR?
I guess more questions: how does the interaction of the baseline credit along with a TOU rate work? Is the baseline applied to net consumption, or gross consumption?
Can anybody go through an example of how it's actually computed? I've never seen an example of a TOU plus tiers combined. What happens if I am a net generator? And finally, how does it work with the minimum daily bill? Does it mean that any day that I produce more than consume (in dollar terms), I am charged an extra 33 cents? Is this taken off my generation credit for that day, or accounted for differently? Can I use the production credits to offset this at the end of the year? I know extra kWh are reimbursed at a pathetically low rate. Suppose though I am at 0 kWh net at end of year but have a credit because I generated at higher rates than I consumed. Can the remaining credit roll over to compensate for future consumption?
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Thanks Sensij, I was about to put relays and over-rides on my car charger to day-charge if sunny, night charge if not. What PG&E should do is use various examples of scenarios under the different plans to explain the schedules. For the life of me, I could not figure it out. If I ran the numbers in an example, I would do much better. Now I need to model if the EV car plan is worthwhile!Leave a comment:
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No, not right.
You can think of PV generation as an entirely independent revenue generator. Every kWh you generate is worth the kWh price for that time period. If you don't consume it, it goes into your PG&E account at that value.
A simple example.
Your PV system generates 5 kWh at $0.25 / kWh (off-peak), and 3 kWh at $0.50 / kWh (on-peak). That is 8 kWh generated, worth 1.25 + 1.50 = $2.75 of bill credit.
You have a car that needs 8 kWh to charge.
You could charge it during off-peak (at 0.25 / kWh), which costs $2.00, leaving $0.75 of bill credit
You could charge it during super off peak (at 0.20 / kWh), which costs $1.60, leaving $1.15 of bill credit.
In these calculations performed on a dollar basis, any excess bill credit at the end of the year is wiped out, and any amount owed needs to be paid.
You can see that there is no real advantage to charging your car using direct PV power during the day, since it prevents you from banking those kWh credits. A wrinkle to this is non-bypassable charges... if the difference in price between super off peak and daytime off-peak was smaller than the NBC rate, increasing self-consumption might actually make sense. I don't think this condition in the rates exists right now, though.
At true-up, a different calculation is introduced. The true-up looks at just the raw kWh imported from the grid and exported to the grid, and ignores all TOU values. If the amount imported exceeds the amount exported, no change is made. If the amount exported exceeds the amount imported, you get the 0.03 / kWh credit (or whatever the going rate is at that time) for the excess production.
Another piece of the true-up is reconciliation of the minimum monthly charge, but that is beyond the scope of your question, I think.
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Questions: NEM 2.0 - How much $ is TOU credit against usage? How does true-up work?
My PV went net-metering on-line with PG&E a few days ago. 4.8KW panel rated but with shade. Everyday since I have seen negative KWh use when generating between 8 to 4pm. I have been put on the ETOU A plan since I have been a low energy user , 6,500KWh last 12 months. However, it will go up due to charging a 10KWh plug-in daily. Supposedly, my panels will generate 7500 KWh over the next 12 months.
After reading many pages from PGE and forum users, I am still not sure how to calculate the best plan. I know I missed out on the NEM1.0, there is no going back in time. Would folks who had gone through this enlighten me on what the plans really mean?
Suppose, my home usage remain the same but add about 3,500 KWh to 10,000 KWh total use. My PV generates 7,500 KWh but at off-peak hours. One more kink to the model, I have the option to charge my car between 9 to 1pm offpeak or at night, as I work evenings. So I can theoretically charge my car from my PV power most days. Since I own a plug in, even if some emergency came up, I can still drive by gas only.
There is two things I am not clear wrt to the NEM2.0 plans. First is how much $ is my power credit calculated. If I generate excess at off-peak and of course use PGE power at peak, how is it squared up? I read somewhere they only give you $0.03 KWh for excess power. Offpeak excess cannot be credited for Peak usage? Second, there is the yearly true up, which I am mostly clueless about. I read that if you have a net credit in the TOU range it is wiped out. But if there is a $ due, you must pay. Sounds like a bad deal for PV. It seems to encourage people to add batteries to not move energy around the grid. I am not adding batteries for now. So it appears the best option is to shift usage as much as possible to PV generation hours. So that one send as little as possible of the PV generated power to the grid since it is not a good arbitrage. I know every utility will have different rates but generally, am I right?Leave a comment:
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