Tesla solar roof - orders being taken next week

[ButchDeal]

Yeah but it will employ thousands of people for years while here in the US a small or even large solar pv installation will only last a few months and so will those jobs.

Look I want to see more solar projects here in the US but to say RE is generating more jobs is a misnomer because most of those positions last for a very short time. I would rather see an increase of permanent jobs resulting from new power generating facilities.

you are confusing contracts with jobs. Most of the install jobs are permanent construction jobs with installers. They are keeping quite busy The contracts for individual installs are short term ( or longer depending on the size of the job). But this is pretty similar to newer automated fossil fuel power plants as well, few permanent jobs.

Though the hybrid solar thermal/NG plants employ more people than just a NG plant.

[SunEagle]

Nuclear power doesn't suck until it does. Then it really sucks.

That project will also not be completed on budget.

Yeah but it will employ thousands of people for years while here in the US a small or even large solar pv installation will only last a few months and so will those jobs.

Look I want to see more solar projects here in the US but to say RE is generating more jobs is a misnomer because most of those positions last for a very short time. I would rather see an increase of permanent jobs resulting from new power generating facilities.

[adoublee]

Oh did I mention this was one of those low carbon 24/7 high output nuclear power plant that seem to scare the crap out of most people.

Nuclear power doesn't suck until it does. Then it really sucks.

That project will also not be completed on budget.

[SunEagle]

Nope. Those are US jobs in the renewable energy sector.

And yet what type of jobs are those?

How about a single 2.7GW power generating plant being built in the UK. It plans to employ 8,000 to 10,000 during the construction phase and 850 permanent upon commissioning.

Oh did I mention this was one of those low carbon 24/7 high output nuclear power plant that seem to scare the crap out of most people.

[jflorey2]

Are you talking about the Chi-Com and Korean manufactures, or the undocumented installers who work under the table contract labor?

Nope. Those are US jobs in the renewable energy sector.

[J.P.M.]

Musk came up with a design for an EV with a range of 300 miles and could outperform anything else on the road - and he delivered.
Musk came up with a design for a booster that could land itself and be reused - and he delivered.

Musk is certainly no DaVinci - he's a lot more practical. If his house-of-cards financial model manages to not collapse he'll be remembered like Henry Ford or Igor Sikorsky is. If it collapses (which looks likely) he will be remembered (forgotten?) like Preston Tucker was.

Fair enough, but he's still a con man bilking the ignorant and the government in my book. Similar to as you write, we'll see. Until we do, stand back and let the ignorant and gullible act as test beds as they please.

[Sunking]

The renewables sector has added 4 million jobs in the past ten years, and is the fastest growing sector of the economy. Do some basic math and figure out how much income, state, sales and social security tax those people pay. Then - when people want to retire - figure out who is going to pay for THEIR social security in ten years.

Are you talking about the Chi-Com and Korean manufactures, or the undocumented installers who work under the table contract labor? Or the solar users who pay no taxes on the energy they use. In case you have not noticed the bubble has bust, and solar is in a huge decline.The largest manufacture is going bankrupt with all the other manufactures. Sales have evaporated.

[jflorey2]

Da Vinci came up with a helicopter design, but he didn't ask for $1,000 deposits for it, probably partly because he couldn't deliver. Musk is no Da Vinci and never will be. .

Musk came up with a design for an EV with a range of 300 miles and could outperform anything else on the road - and he delivered.
Musk came up with a design for a booster that could land itself and be reused - and he delivered.

Musk is certainly no DaVinci - he's a lot more practical. If his house-of-cards financial model manages to not collapse he'll be remembered like Henry Ford or Igor Sikorsky is. If it collapses (which looks likely) he will be remembered (forgotten?) like Preston Tucker was.

[J.P.M.]

Past failures pave the way for future successes. I think we need to keep an open mind on innovations like these instead of getting mired in politics and Elon Musk's personality.

There is a need for education to be able to intuit the difference between true innovation based on science, and a simple con based on greed with the goal of making money by screwing the ignorant.

As an observation and no more, most of the folks I've spoken with who have opinions such as or similar to those posted above are, more likely than not, to be the most ignorant about the technology they espouse, and are usually the biggest apologists for the con artists that feed off the ignorance. Education via a dose of getting screwed by the shysters seems a good curative for those not completely bereft of common sense.

I also somewhat resent the implication that those of us who see the con men such as Musk in a less than divine light are anti technology or anti progress. That, IMO, is B.S. I've been around R.E. and initially because of it, Professional Engineering for 40+ yrs., and I'm about the biggest fan of R.E. I know of. I've also done my share of innovation in ways the treehuggers and R.E. ignorant wishful thinkers can't begin to understand. To me, Musk is no more than the latest iteration in a string of con artists including the likes of Amory Lovins, Dan Yergin and others who do more harm than good to R.E. and more importantly, progress and improvement in the human condition. They are leeches, sucking the blood of the ignorant who usually have more money than brains.

Da Vinci came up with a helicopter design, but he didn't ask for $1,000 deposits for it, probably partly because he couldn't deliver. Musk is no Da Vinci and never will be. .

[Mike90250]

Another problem with the "solar roof tiles/shingles" is the electrical connections, hundreds of them, in a hostile environment (roof & attic space)

[oilerlord]

My guess is that people that can afford to blow $80K on a Model S will have no problem completing the Tesla trilogy by adding a Solar Roof and a Powerwall. For those folks, form is more important than function, and they will happily pay for it.

[SunEagle]

Past failures pave the way for future successes. I think we need to keep an open mind on innovations like these instead of getting mired in politics and Elon Musk's personality.

True. I want to see new technology work as much as you do. I just don't like seeing the way paved by people that can't afford to fund that technology.

Maybe I am a little sensitive because of hearing too many horror stories concerning car or equipment leases to people that I feel are easily ripped off because they do not understand the financial side of how their money is being used.

[J.P.M.]

Definitely agreed there. I am constantly amazed by the new norm which seems to be "well, there's no real truth out there; my viewpoint is as good as anyone else's." The media often perpetuates this by giving both sides equal time and consideration, thus constructing an artificial equivalence between (for example) doctors and anti-vaxxers.

The notion of equal time to "both sides" as fine as far as it goes, but its value and veracity is perhaps somewhat dependent on the wisdom and objectivity of those doing the equal timing, both of which qualities seem to be in shorter supply these days than in the past. One reason of many why the U.S. eventually declared victory in Viet Nam and got the hell out of Dodge in a hurry was because Walter Cronkite told America, after visiting Viet Nam, that the war was in effect, an unwinnable waste. I gave up that level of trust in what today passes for journalism, to the degree I ever had it, long ago. IMO only, We're all on our own. and we're all getting dumber in a world increasing viewed as a simplistic dichotomy of choices, force fed by the media of all sides.

[oilerlord]

I am telling you that solar shingle have been tried and failed. The reason was due to heat failure of the solar cells because they could not get cooled enough like a typical solar pv panel on a roof.

Tesla is trying something different and may find a working product using tiles instead of a flat shingle.

What I have a major question is will they be able to do is make a viable working product that has a long life span, converts solar energy to electricity, keeps a home water tight and cost less then a typical solar pv system installed on a standard shingle roof?

Past failures pave the way for future successes. I think we need to keep an open mind on innovations like these instead of getting mired in politics and Elon Musk's personality.

[J.P.M.]

Unfortunately while the fastest growing job sector is in the RE field most of those are temporary construction jobs compared to the ones found at traditional power generating plants.

Also the construction of an RE (solar or wind) system is not very technical and does not require a level of education then someone in charge of running or maintaining a power generating plant is required to have.

My fears is that the RE job growth can easily fall off to nothing just like the new home construction jobs did back when the market fell. We should be measuring the economies growth by looking at how well an industry is creating permanent high paying jobs, not temporary ones.

Strictly anecdotal: SunEagle, I believe you've seen an aerial shot of the solar farm near my house. It's about 1.2 MW. I've got a great 100% clear view of it and its surroundings, including service roads from my house about 1 1/4 miles away and about 800-900 ft. higher in elevation. Lots of asses/elbows during construction. After its construction and startup and since, I have seen no activity at the site beyond portions of or the entire array's panel field shifting orientation throughout the day. I haven't seen as much as a pickup truck. I'm sure there is some human contact there, but, point is, it don't take much to keep it running. They don't even clean it.

Separately, the 1 MW array at Furnace Creek in Death Valley takes little, if any maint. according to conversations I have with them ~ 1X/yr. They wash the array every other year to get rid of the guano, and replace a panel or two every few years or so, and had a warranty covered inverter failure after 5 years of operation. Other than that, it's quite low maint.

And - added bonus - there's not much chance of a meltdown.