Neighbor experiencing glare, wants me to remove panels or he will take legal action

[easye]

my HOA approved my install but specifically stated that if glare issues occured I must move the panels. Luckily that didn't happen, so take it for what its worth. I like my neighbors and I'd like them to think I have their interests in mind as well when reasonable. Reasonable is what you will have to decide.

[idnominal]

The earlier post asked what happened. Here is a Mar. 7, 2014 update:

http://www.businessinsider.com/energ...ch-pedigree-13
Go Inside A Tech CEO's $22 Million Mansion That's Entirely Controlled By 15 iPads

Actually, despite that sad truth that many of us will probably not have a $22 mil. mansion, it may be a good example. Based on what I learned here from earlier posts, a solar array below the home's first floor level might be more likely to cause a glare problem.

From ABC news 2010: Some neighbors also complain that the solar panels reflect too much light, creating a glare at times.
"I would like to see it moved to the roof," suggested Gessford.
"We thought initially about putting them up on the roof but ran into problems with the homeowners association on height restrictions," explained Rizzone.
Rizzone says the project is fully permitted and approved by the city and the glass covering the panels is treated to decrease glare.
He plans to landscape the hill to help soften the look. He hopes that neighbors will feel better about it once it is completely finished. The Rizzones plan to move into the house in a few weeks.

Also, from democratic underground: And the solar panels, he said, are here to stay.The glass covering the Rizzones' solar panels is treated to decrease glare, said Rita Edwards, marketing manager for Northern California-based Premier Power Renewable Energy, which installed the panels and has used the same tempered glass coverings on other projects with success.

[DanKegel]

It'd be interesting to hear about other cases, and how they were resolved.

Here's one where I was able to find addresses for both ends of the dispute:

http://articles.latimes.com/2010/jun/22/local/la-me-newport-green-house-20100622

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/1301+Dolphin+Terrace,+Corona+Del+Mar,+CA+92625/351+East+Bay+Front,+Newport+Beach,+CA+92661/@33.6093529,-117.8878878,19z

(pretty big array, claim was "the porch of his Balboa Island home is now subjected to an intense glare for 2 1/2 hours a day".)
Not sure how the case was resolved, though.

[DanKegel]

+1 on that. Get as much documentation and (timestamped) pictures as you can.

If he'll let you on the property, or is willing to send you pictures himself, get them from his point of view.
And get pictures from your point of view at the time he says the glare is worst.

[Git]

You need to go experience this "glare" for yourself and while you're there, take some pics.

HE may think it is an issue - but what would an ordinary, prudent person think - I think that is the benchmark you would be shooting for if it was to go to court

[J.P.M.]

#1) Confirm the details of the "glare". Ask your neighbor to let you see what he's complaining about. Verify whether the glare really exists, and if so how it supposedly affects the neighbor's life. Then consider how neighborly you want to be in remedying the problem. If it's just some reflection hitting the side of his house halfway up, that's different than if there's a concentrated glare onto the seating area of his patio or tv room or into his eyes while he's cooking something in the kitchen.

#2) If you're concerned about the cost of a remedy, consider alerting your homeowner's insurance. To the extent your neighbor has threatened legal action, your homeowner's carrier may provide coverage and may agree to nip things in the bud by settling early (i.e. moving the panels for you).

Any glare will land on different surfaces and will change location minute to minute, day to day. Confirming the glare is a necessary fact, but understanding that to do it correctly such that all the bases are covered represents a very difficult task to understand, much less pull off. Think of how shadows change over the course of a day and with the seasons.

Instruments such as a solar pathfinder may be of some help in this by use as a symmetric way to find an incidence angle "cone" so to speak as the symmetric portion of the "cone" of the reflection illuminated surface. I do not have such an instrument, but having one and applying a bit of inventiveness might bear some fruit or at least a few ideas.

[Beachsolar]

#1) Confirm the details of the "glare". Ask your neighbor to let you see what he's complaining about. Verify whether the glare really exists, and if so how it supposedly affects the neighbor's life. Then consider how neighborly you want to be in remedying the problem. If it's just some reflection hitting the side of his house halfway up, that's different than if there's a concentrated glare onto the seating area of his patio or tv room or into his eyes while he's cooking something in the kitchen.

#2) If you're concerned about the cost of a remedy, consider alerting your homeowner's insurance. To the extent your neighbor has threatened legal action, your homeowner's carrier may provide coverage and may agree to nip things in the bud by settling early (i.e. moving the panels for you).

[J.P.M.]

Beyond the idea of adding a hedge / screen / billboard / awning / tree to shield the neighbor,
would a small change in tilt of the affected panels help? You might be able to move the reflection enough to help.

Dan, use your head and think about it. The sun will move and take the reflection with it.

Point is, without actually moving the array, knowing apriori what's going to happen at any daylight minute, it's near impossible to predict what will happen for every daylight hour for every day of the year under a scheme as you envision.

I've tried using 12" X 12 " mirror tiles to see the reflective effect on neighbors before arrays go in. A few degrees or less will move a reflection a lot. The sun's movement will move it as much in a few min. Point is, while possible, as a practical matter, it's near impossible to predict where a solar reflection will be at any time that is not the present.

Rearrangement of an array may shift the time of offending reflections, or onto a different neighbor. Even if reflections can be guaranteed to be avoided altogether, the resulting tilt and or azimuth may be aesthetically unpleasant. to the owner. And then, there's always the real possibility of fixing one problem only to create a new one with a different neighbor. I don't have a one size fits all solution, or maybe no solution, yet, but changing the tilt (or azimuth for that matter) can be a real challenge both in $$ and complexity with an uncertain outcome at best.

Your tilt idea seems to me to be another example of " You could just do this - after all, I'm only and 'idea' person" type of thinking. Seen such and been cleaning up the mess such thinking causes for a long time.

[idnominal]

I wonder what "damages" your neighbor can prove? Saying you are going to sue and actually doing it are two totally different things.

Nuisance is different. You don't prove damages per se, but some degree of impairment in enjoying your property. Apparently in CA there are already defined some nuisance levels of reflected light from solar panels, probably there is a time factor too. Like any other complaint in life, glare complaints likely range from ridiculous and frivolous to legitimate and serious.

For sure, a threat is very different from action. Hopefully the OP can solve the problem with no lawyers. Even if lawyers get involved, most controversies do not go to trial, or even get as far as filing a case, let alone the early stages of discovery. More often than not, it is a few phone calls or a letter or two, or maybe a meeting, and that's it.

[huge]

There's a cheap simple solution

Don't focus on blocking the glare at his end. Focus on blocking it from your end without moving any panels. The panels are flat against the roof. You need something just a few inches up and it will block the glare. Add a mirror material to the panel side to focus some sunlight back to the panels so that you wouldn't lose any production

[Mike90250]

The simplest route might be to offer solar sun film on the neighbors affected windows.
But generally, PV panels have an anti-reflection coating, reflected light is lost power. Some glare could be expected, but getting someone to move panels by changing the angle, will cost $1,000 just to have them drive up to do the job.
I think it is a case of "sour grapes" you have panels, and they don't. so they want "something".

[DanKegel]

Beyond the idea of adding a hedge / screen / billboard / awning / tree to shield the neighbor,
would a small change in tilt of the affected panels help? You might be able to move the reflection enough to help.

[category4]

I wonder what "damages" your neighbor can prove? Saying you are going to sue and actually doing it are two totally different things.

[idnominal]

It seems to me that the HOA itself may have some responsibility here as they actually approved the installation. ...

That is a really interesting point. The HOA may want to handle the entire matter. Or, if it ends up that the neighbor's lawyer brings an action against the HOA, it might be that the HOA incurs the legal fees, not the solar panel home owner.

If you need to see a lawyer, consider looking for a lawyer / law firm with some experience in this area, so that they don't have to come up to speed on solar panels and CA related case law. Many lawyers write legal updates on topics they have been interested in. One possible way to identify experienced lawyers is to do some google searches including case law, or law firm, words and phrases like that. (law review, law journal articles, while informative, are often prepared by law students).

Timing may be a difficult decision. Hopefully, no lawyers need to be involved (perhaps this can be resolved with the HOA alone if both of you are members).

On the other hand, if this controversy might go to a legal action, even months or years out, it is probably best that only your lawyer communicates on this matter with the adverse party (or, of course their lawyer if it gets that far).

See what the HOA says, they might want to take complete control for the first pass. If you need to move towards hiring a lawyer, many give a free consultation, and you might be able to "interview" more than one.

(just information, not legal advice)

[smily03]

Depending on how the glare pans out, how big yards are, etc., would putting up a fence, hedge, billboard, etc. be a potential fix?