Rates plans with APS.

[Ian S]

Was thinking about this regarding the "pick a due date" feature. So according to your bill, your billing cycle starts DEC 10 so you get to put 21 days of DEC generation toward summer usage. If you changed it so your billing period ended on the 1st, would you get those 9 extra days too?

Yes I would think so. Hadn't really thought about it before.

[sunnyguy]

Here's mine from December.

Was thinking about this regarding the "pick a due date" feature. So according to your bill, your billing cycle starts DEC 10 so you get to put 21 days of DEC generation toward summer usage. If you changed it so your billing period ended on the 1st, would you get those 9 extra days too?

[sunnyguy]

Here's mine from December.

Yeah I get it now but I had always thought net metering was one net calculation at the end of the year like the bills I linked. But I see some utilities are tricky limiting it to rollover with a cutoff date. I'd be interested to see how many other utilities do it that way. I will have to pay attention in Nov/Dec to try and zero out the surplus. Having jan-april surplus to offset summer usage is better than nothing.

[Ian S]

I'm confused then why call it a true-up 12 month billing cycle? Is there an example true-up bill posted anywhere?

Like these: http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1763

Here's mine from December. Look on the lower right where it shows -206 for "Net on-peak electricity, in kWh." That's my banked excess on-peak energy generated since the previous December. Then look on the lower left where it displays the "Net electricity credit" of $6.06. That latter number results from paying me $0.0294 for each of those 206 excess Kwh stored in my bank. That zeroes out my bank until the next year. We get a bill every month. That bill is settled every month except for any excess generation which is carried over to the next month. My banked excess generation (peak and off peak in separate banks) builds up over the winter and spring, then gets depleted over the summer. It starts to build again during the fall until the December bill where anything still in the bank gets paid off and the banked amount is reset to zero. They won't even let you pay down your off peak charges with on peak excess.

[azdave]

I'm confused then why call it a true-up 12 month billing cycle? Is there an example true-up bill posted anywhere?

At my SRP true-up in April, they zero any banked energy by crediting me wholesale rates and putting it towards my account balance (I can get a check for cash if I request that).

I then enter the summer season with nothing in the bank except for a little excess May production when we already are using A/C some days. Not the best deal when I bank over 2000 kWh in the cool spring and would love to have the full value to use over the summer but that's the way the deal works with SRP. I got grandfathered under the old rules so I'm not complaining compared to what they offer now. Right now I'm just under 1000 kWh banked through winter so I expect a similar situation this year.

I use small electric space heaters in some rooms over the winter as I'd rather have the gas furnace stay off than to get a small wholesale kWh credit in April.

Last year I got a $61 credit which paid my $21 base connection fees for a few months.

[sunnyguy]

"Company shall credit the customer the Excess Generation kWh in subsequent billing periods. "

So I guess there is no true-up with APS. That's an inferior type of net metering. How many other utilities do it that (carry-forward) way vs the SDGE, PGE (true-up) way?

[sunnyguy]

Only partly true with APS in Arizona. You can carry forward credits but can't carry them back. With APS, the trueup is in December so you do have the winter months from then on to bank credits. However, excess October, November and December production up to the date of your December bill can't be used to offset high usage in the previous summer. With the other major utility, SRP, their trueup is in April I believe, so you are even worse off. SRP, of course has effectively killed rooftop solar with their new demand charges that can't be offset at all.

I'm confused then why call it a true-up 12 month billing cycle? Is there an example true-up bill posted anywhere?

Like these: http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1763

[sunnyguy]

APS told me they base it off of the past 12 months of usage x 125%. They calculate your production KWH based on system DC size in KW x 5 x 30 x 12= yearly kwh So for me 9.3 x 5 x 30 x 12 =16,740

We are putting in a pool/spa and expect or usage to go up.

If you read the actual rate rider the way it's written (30kw OR 125%) implies that limit doesn't apply until you get above 30kw but I am not an expert.

[Ian S]

Isn't the whole point of true-up so that your excess production in winter covers your deficit in summer?

Only partly true with APS in Arizona. You can carry forward credits but can't carry them back. With APS, the trueup is in December so you do have the winter months from then on to bank credits. However, excess October, November and December production up to the date of your December bill can't be used to offset high usage in the previous summer. With the other major utility, SRP, their trueup is in April I believe, so you are even worse off. SRP, of course has effectively killed rooftop solar with their new demand charges that can't be offset at all.

[FNG AZ]

I thought you could install up to 30kw without having to demonstrate 125% demand. Not that you would want to...

APS told me they base it off of the past 12 months of usage x 125%. They calculate your production KWH based on system DC size in KW x 5 x 30 x 12= yearly kwh So for me 9.3 x 5 x 30 x 12 =16,740

We are putting in a pool/spa and expect or usage to go up.

[sunnyguy]

That might not work out the best financially. APS only pays you $0.029/kWh excess at true-up in December. That's after a couple of months of low usage and therefore significant excess production which will be given back to APS at that low true-up rate. If you try to reduce the amount subject to the true-up rate via a smaller system, you're liable to under-produce during the hot summer months and have to buy from APS. Kind of a catch 22. You really should do a month by month simulation of production vs usage for your home to see what might be optimum.

Isn't the whole point of true-up so that your excess production in winter covers your deficit in summer?

[sunnyguy]

I am thinking of adding more panels before the APS rate case in June. I can add another 7k DC before going over my 125% limit for EPR-6. I think then I would switch to the flat rate....

I thought you could install up to 30kw without having to demonstrate 125% demand. Not that you would want to...

[Ian S]

I am thinking of adding more panels before the APS rate case in June. I can add another 7k DC before going over my 125% limit for EPR-6. I think then I would switch to the flat rate....

That might not work out the best financially. APS only pays you $0.029/kWh excess at true-up in December. That's after a couple of months of low usage and therefore significant excess production which will be given back to APS at that low true-up rate. If you try to reduce the amount subject to the true-up rate via a smaller system, you're liable to under-produce during the hot summer months and have to buy from APS. Kind of a catch 22. You really should do a month by month simulation of production vs usage for your home to see what might be optimum.

[azdave]

I can add another 7k DC before going over my 125% limit for EPR-6.

Wow! Your going to add more than my total system.
I'm on SRP in Gilbert with just a 6.6kW grid-tie. This year I generated about 110% of my needs. In the next few years that will drop slightly but still should stay near 100%. I am on the basic flat rate plan now because when I was on a TOU plan I had a huge bank of off-peak credits but was not allowed to use those to offset my peak needs (except at true-up in April when I got paid wholesale value of roughly $0.03 kWh). I am far better off financially on flat rate since I generate all of my needs. After 20 years of SRP TOU plans it's nice not to worry anymore about when I use my appliances or run my pool pump.

[FNG AZ]

I am thinking of adding more panels before the APS rate case in June. I can add another 7k DC before going over my 125% limit for EPR-6. I think then I would switch to the flat rate....