So help me understand this new $10 minimum bill with SCE

[SolarFuture]

I made the same assumption you did when I received my bill. Forum member silversaver was kind enough one again to post his true up bill showing what senji wrote is true. It is in the "SCE customers how do you get a $0 bill" thread.

Just went through that thread, excellent news! Thanks.

[FFE]

I made the same assumption you did when I received my bill. Forum member silversaver was kind enough one again to post his true up bill showing what senji wrote is true. It is in the "SCE customers how do you get a $0 bill" thread.

[SolarFuture]

The climate credit will get paid out at true up, if you end up with a real money net credit. The CA Climate Credit is not SCE's program to mess with, they are *required* to pass through what the CPUC specifies.

Thanks for clarifying and I hope this is the case. It's just odd and confusing that they're rolling it into the tracked charges on the bill.

[sensij]

I received my bill from SCE a couple days ago and the $38 CA Climate Credit was listed under "Tracked Charges" and was added (technically subtracted?) to my cumulative energy charge/credit for my current relevant period. The full "Bal of minimum charge" was still added (net generator for the month) and is due immediately. This seems to run counter to what you state above regarding the account balance ledger and the climate credit being "real money".

Unless I am misunderstanding something here, looks like SCE is finding more and more ways to screw us.

The climate credit will get paid out at true up, if you end up with a real money net credit. The CA Climate Credit is not SCE's program to mess with, they are *required* to pass through what the CPUC specifies.

[SolarFuture]

There are two types of accounting ledgers... let's call them NEM credits and Account balance.

NEM credits basically come from the net energy charge each month. Under tiered plans, this usually works out to a straight (kWh in - kWh out) times the baseline rate, but when higher tiers are involved, it might not exactly match. Under TOU, energy in each TOU period is converted to dollars and netted out. At the end of the billing year, if you have NEM credits, they disappear, and if you have NEM debit, that amount moves into the Account Balance Ledger.

The Account Balance ledger is real money. Minimum monthly charges accrue here, as well as the CA Climate Credit, any excess generation credits (described in question 2), reduce your use credits (or whatever SCE calls the incentive on demand reduction days), and any balance owed from the NEM ledger. This ledger tabulates the real money that needs to be paid (or received) at the end of the year.

This is sort of a simplified explanation, the exact relationship between the monthly minimum and the NEM ledger varies a bit from one Poco and rate plan to the next. The end result is that you can be sure you will pay at least $120 (less any other Account Balance ledger credits).

I received my bill from SCE a couple days ago and the $38 CA Climate Credit was listed under "Tracked Charges" and was added (technically subtracted?) to my cumulative energy charge/credit for my current relevant period. The full "Bal of minimum charge" was still added (net generator for the month) and is due immediately. This seems to run counter to what you state above regarding the account balance ledger and the climate credit being "real money".

Unless I am misunderstanding something here, looks like SCE is finding more and more ways to screw us.

[FFE]

Thank you to everyone that is trying to help

Just received my SCE bill in the mail. Here are the details:

19 day bill cycle (since I just started NEM)

$0.59 Basic charge 19 days x $0.031
$2.10 Bal of minimum charge
$0.04 Tax
$2.73 Total due

I had a negative energy charge and my NEM shows the same negative amount as my YTD total.

I am on the TOU-A plan and all of my energy charges are negative except for a $0.73 DWR bond charge, my Super Off Peak delivery charge and my Super Off Peak generation charge. So they didn't apply the charge there.

It appears that I will have to pay the balance of minimum due every month instead of including it in the Net metering. And, it is lower than expected
Very confusing.

FYI my CA climate credit was shown two bills ago. Sorry for the confusing wording on Question #2 earlier.

[silversaver]

If your true-up bill (plus any payments you've made throughout the year) is less than $120, or whatever the total of $1.77 months (old minimum prior to Oct 1) + $10 months works out to be, you will be charged the difference to bring the total to the minimum. What shows up for the "minimum charge" on the monthly statements doesn't matter much, it will be reconciled at the end of the 12 mo billing period.

If you go back and look at your bills from last Spring, is there a line item for minimum charge that brings the monthly bill to about $1.77?

The Net Metering with SCE, unless you have a small system and option for monthly billing, your monthly bill is always around or less than $2 per month on basic meter charge. My system is big enough to cover 85% of load and TOU plan makes my bill $0, I'm just paying the basic metering fee.

[sensij]

That is the part I'm confusing about. In Spring, I would be generate credit towards my account and I'm not sure how SCE will calculate that part...

If your true-up bill (plus any payments you've made throughout the year) is less than $120, or whatever the total of $1.77 months (old minimum prior to Oct 1) + $10 months works out to be, you will be charged the difference to bring the total to the minimum. What shows up for the "minimum charge" on the monthly statements doesn't matter much, it will be reconciled at the end of the 12 mo billing period.

If you go back and look at your bills from last Spring, is there a line item for minimum charge that brings the monthly bill to about $1.77?

[silversaver]

Edit:
I just took another look. Your bill for the month was $56.99. You exceeded the $10 minimum, so you should not expect to see a minimum charge line item on this bill. The $10 minimum does not necessarily have to be paid each month as you go (PG&E does require a payment, SDG&E does not), but when the true-up is calculated, I would expect the minimum charge to show up more clearly at that time.

That is the part I'm confusing about. In Spring, I would be generate credit towards my account and I'm not sure how SCE will calculate that part...

[sensij]

I just received my Nov bill from SCE. The billing cycle starts on Oct 13th. I DO NOT have the $10 min charges on my bill!!!!

Now I am confuse on how the SCE charges the min charges. I thought it is a min $10 we have to pay each month.

Or, Does SCE put a min $10 each month to off set your credit??

Edit:
I just took another look. Your bill for the month was $56.99. You exceeded the $10 minimum, so you should not expect to see a minimum charge line item on this bill. The $10 minimum does not necessarily have to be paid each month as you go (PG&E does require a payment, SDG&E does not), but when the true-up is calculated, I would expect the minimum charge to show up more clearly at that time.

[silversaver]

I just received my Nov bill from SCE. The billing cycle starts on Oct 13th. I DO NOT have the $10 min charges on my bill!!!!

Now I am confuse on how the SCE charges the min charges. I thought it is a min $10 we have to pay each month.

Or, Does SCE put a min $10 each month to off set your credit??

[sensij]

When you say end of year, is that when your NEM billing period started or Dec 31st?

Let's use some ~real numbers as an example.


Im on TOU and this is how I planned the system before the $10 minimum
My bill, on average, is -$15 every winter month, so thats 15x8= $120 worth of credit
The panels will not be enough to cover the summer months and my bills should be (on average) $50 every summer months. Thats 50x4= $200.
I would have had to pay SCE $80 for the year ($200 - $120 = $80).

But now, with the $10 minimum, i would still have to pay $10 those winter months, but the credits would still count against the summer usage, right?
So then I would have to pay $80 (for the winter months) plus the extra $80 for the summer months for a total of $160 for the year.

Is this about right? not counting the CA climate credit.

It is when the billing year starts, the anniversary of your NEM start date. Some Poco's allow you to choose what month to use as your true-up (once), so if it matters to you, look into it.

In your example, you would owe an additional $40 on top of the $80, for $120 total (ignoring all other considerations). Not long ago, I believed that $160 was the right answer, but was convinced through documentation on all of the poco's sites, and from examples of forum members who have been through their first year, that the minimum really ends up being calculated on an annual basis, not monthly.

[josefontao]

When you say end of year, is that when your NEM billing period started or Dec 31st?

Let's use some ~real numbers as an example.


Im on TOU and this is how I planned the system before the $10 minimum
My bill, on average, is -$15 every winter month, so thats 15x8= $120 worth of credit
The panels will not be enough to cover the summer months and my bills should be (on average) $50 every summer months. Thats 50x4= $200.
I would have had to pay SCE $80 for the year ($200 - $120 = $80).

But now, with the $10 minimum, i would still have to pay $10 those winter months, but the credits would still count against the summer usage, right?
So then I would have to pay $80 (for the winter months) plus the extra $80 for the summer months for a total of $160 for the year.

Is this about right? not counting the CA climate credit.

[sensij]

Question #1: Did this take effect October 1st? I checked my SCE account online and my bill is much less than the new minimum daily charge. It is less than $3.

Does your bill include the CA Climate credit? For SCE customers, you are getting $29 cash back in April and October.

Question #2: Are you sure that excess generation can be used to offset the minimum charge? Like at the true up date I have a $100 credit so I pay $20.

"Excess Generation" means that at the end of the year, you've generated more kWh than you've consumed. The calculation occurs no matter whether you are on a tiered plan or TOU plan. SCE calls this Net Surplus Energy Compensation, currently around $0.033 / kWh. You receive that credit for the excess at the end of your 12 mo billing period. If you've consumed more kWh than you've generated, the excess generation calculation is not applicable.

Question #3: For the example above, would I have to have excess kWh generated for the year along with the money credit for this to work? I say this because I am on TOU-A and can adjust my life a little to have a $80-120 credit. My system is sized to allow me to use more energy than last year and have a slight credit after the first year. I will only generate about 60-70% of my use. However, I use about 50% of my power during the Super Off Peak time and my excess generation during peak times should more than offset dollar wise my Super Off Peak usage.

Thank you for taking the time to keep us informed.

There are two types of accounting ledgers... let's call them NEM credits and Account balance.

NEM credits basically come from the net energy charge each month. Under tiered plans, this usually works out to a straight (kWh in - kWh out) times the baseline rate, but when higher tiers are involved, it might not exactly match. Under TOU, energy in each TOU period is converted to dollars and netted out. At the end of the billing year, if you have NEM credits, they disappear, and if you have NEM debit, that amount moves into the Account Balance Ledger.

The Account Balance ledger is real money. Minimum monthly charges accrue here, as well as the CA Climate Credit, any excess generation credits (described in question 2), reduce your use credits (or whatever SCE calls the incentive on demand reduction days), and any balance owed from the NEM ledger. This ledger tabulates the real money that needs to be paid (or received) at the end of the year.

This is sort of a simplified explanation, the exact relationship between the monthly minimum and the NEM ledger varies a bit from one Poco and rate plan to the next. The end result is that you can be sure you will pay at least $120 (less any other Account Balance ledger credits).

[FFE]

Question #1: Did this take effect October 1st? I checked my SCE account online and my bill is much less than the new minimum daily charge. It is less than $3.

Question #2: Are you sure that excess generation can be used to offset the minimum charge? Like at the true up date I have a $100 credit so I pay $20.

Question #3: For the example above, would I have to have excess kWh generated for the year along with the money credit for this to work? I say this because I am on TOU-A and can adjust my life a little to have a $80-120 credit. My system is sized to allow me to use more energy than last year and have a slight credit after the first year. I will only generate about 60-70% of my use. However, I use about 50% of my power during the Super Off Peak time and my excess generation during peak times should more than offset dollar wise my Super Off Peak usage.

Thank you for taking the time to keep us informed.