Centro Solar panels and company?

[KRenn]

Why would you assume the panel and inverter warranties are useless? I would think there's a much higher chance that they would be around longer than just about any installer short of the really big ones like Solar City.

It has nothing to do with how long they are going to be around but whether their warranty claims actually mean anything. When you have to remove twenty five panels from various installation sites because they all develop severe cell burnouts after less than a year in service and the manufacturer basically laughs at you saying that they won't replace the panels because they are still producing within the parameters of the warranty, you quickly learn how meaningless such an instrument is.

Personally I can vouch for Sharp, Sanyo(Panasonic), Sunpower, Solarworld, Schott and Aleo as companies that I've never had trouble with in terms of them backing their warranties. Beyond that you have companies that used pro-rated warranties or goofy legalese that basically insulates them from having to live up to their end of the bargain. And what are you going to do? Sue them?

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/29/business/energy-environment/solar-powers-dark-side.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&

My rule of thumb is simple, buy the best quality products that you can afford. Look up data from independent testing organizations such as TUV and the Fraunhofer Institute that specifically test panels for durability and output for further assistance.

[HX_Guy]

I figured Solar City did the installs as well since I see a ton of their vans around.

And I figured that if your original installer goes belly up and you have a problem with the panels, they will send out another installer that they work with. Similar to having an appliance repaired under warranty that you bought at Best Buy if wherever.

[russ]

Why would you assume the panel and inverter warranties are useless? I would think there's a much higher chance that they would be around longer than just about any installer short of the really big ones like Solar City.

Solar City an installer? Leasing company OK but installer?

Many companies will only work on warranties with dealers - not the owner.

[HX_Guy]

Why would you assume the panel and inverter warranties are useless? I would think there's a much higher chance that they would be around longer than just about any installer short of the really big ones like Solar City.

[KRenn]

What kind of things should I be worried about long term? I'm thinking the roofing install is the biggest concern (leaks) because the panels and inverter are covered by the manufacturers.

Assume both the panel and inverter warranties are more or less useless. Not in all cases, but the warranty a solar company offers and the warranty a solar company honors are not one and the same unfortunately.

[HX_Guy]

I agree. It isn't the stuff you see today that is the problem but what happens down the road that would worry me the most.

What kind of things should I be worried about long term? I'm thinking the roofing install is the biggest concern (leaks) because the panels and inverter are covered by the manufacturers.

[KRenn]

I think you have to be a bit crazy to use that bunch!

I agree. It isn't the stuff you see today that is the problem but what happens down the road that would worry me the most.

[HX_Guy]

My point though is the third payment (60%) should be after city and APS inspection not after install.

After the city and APS come out, then the system is finished and on right? Sounds like that's what Ian is saying. I don't think the installer would be ok with getting only 30% throughout the whole project and 70% after it's done.

I'm pretty ok with 60% after it's installed, that's my biggest concern, actually getting the parts.

[Ian S]

LOL, I originally thought you meant 3 weeks but I re-read and said I bet HX means finish 3weeks after the two weeks. Do you know if APS inspects and turns on the same day. My first system was with APS and first the APS inspector came and then once approved the APS service tech came out a week or so later with the meter and we threw the switch.

My install was turned on as soon as the APS inspector approved it. The meter was actually swapped out the day before the inspector came by. Once the inspector had given the OK, the solar production meter was installed and the system turned on all while the inspector was still there IIRC.

[+3 Golfer]

LOL, I originally thought you meant 3 weeks but I re-read and said I bet HX means finish 3weeks after the two weeks. Do you know if APS inspects and turns on the same day. My first system was with APS and first the APS inspector came and then once approved the APS service tech came out a week or so later with the meter and we threw the switch.

I should have went back and checked the payment schedule. My point though is the third payment (60%) should be after city and APS inspection not after install.

[HX_Guy]

LOL, he actually said 3 weeks to install, not 5. Basically said after we sign on, it would be a week for the design and submit for permit, then a week for the permit from Peoria, which he said is pretty quick with turning around permits, and then they would be out to install afterwards. He did say APS would take the longest, up to 1 month before they would come out. Seem a bit too crazy optimistic?

As for the payment breakdown, it's not 60% prior to install. It's 15% on sign up (down payment) and 15% after design and permit submittal, so 30% total prior to install. After the panels are on the roof and rest of the system installed, then it would be an additional 60% and the final 10% after the system is turned on by APS.

As far as warranty, the quote says:

"We will provide the Customer with a copy of the equipment manufacturer’s warranty. We will provide an additional 5 years of warranty on the solar modules to the homeowner at no charge. We will warranty the install for a period of ten years against defects in overall installation of the system that result in degradation in electrical output of more than 15% from the originally rated output during the 10 year period, including roof leaks within four (4) inches of PV attachment points. The warranty includes no-cost repair or replacement and any associated labor not otherwise provided by the manufacturer"

Seems pretty good, if they are around to honor it.


Back to previous customers, I stopped by another job they did and the homeowners weren't home so I couldn't talk to them, but the panels were actually on their garage so I was able to snap some photos. I have no experience with these but it seemed ok to me. They actually did something I haven't seen on any other install, which was chicken wire all around the panels to prevent birds/rodents from going under...thought that was a nice touch, but maybe the homeowner did it?

[+3 Golfer]

With the money saved on this latest quote, you can "afford" to take a few risks like like installer not being around down the road for their warranty on equipment (exclude inverter and panels which should have manufacturer's warranty), roofing leaks, and labor warranty. Installer should give you at least a 10 year warranty. Although I doubt you will ever need the installer's warranty.

My schedule of payments on my current PV system was $1000 upon signup, 40% less $1000 after solar permit issued by county, balance (60%) after passing county and SRP inspections less SRP incentive assigned to vendor. So, first I'd say offer them 40% before install (not 60%) split 5% signup, 15% after permit issued and 15% after panels delivered (remember the SolarWorld panels that never showed up) and then 50% after system passes inspections, and 10% upon commissioning.

Here was my actual schedule of events. I signed my contract on March 24. Permit application to Pinal Co and application to SRP was submitted prior to April 3. SRP approved April 12. Pinal County issued building permit on April 18. Installation was May 9. Pinal Co. inspected / approved on May 20, SRP inspected and approved May 29 (have to have Pinal Co. approval first). SRP commissioned on June 10. I think I could have shaved maybe a week off had I called to schedule the Pinal Co. inspection the day the system was being installed. It took a several days for the vendor's scheduler to get the paper work, contact me on convenient dates and then schedule. So, it took about 11 weeks total time from contract signing until commissioning. Install time was about 6 1/2 weeks after signing. I think 5 weeks from contract signing until install sounds ambitious.

[HX_Guy]

I talked to a second person who had their system installed by this company back in 2011, actually stopped by their house since they live about a mile from us. The lady had nothing but good things to say about them, said the install went well and was on schedule, she couldn't remember exactly how long it took since it was 3 years ago but said "a few weeks". Hasn't had any problems with the install, system or leaks and her electric bill has been $9/month ever since. She said she would definitely recommend them and was surprised to hear about their bad BBB rating, actually said she would go on there and give them a positive one.

I have a few more people to talk to but so far 2 people and 2 positive reviews.

[HX_Guy]

The northern roof is pitched at 17º so 1. the panels would need to be angled quite high to then face south, I think it would look odd and 2. there are a ton of vents on the northern roof so it would really complicate things as some the city will not allow you to put panels on top of them or move them. The southern roof has only 3 vents, two which they go on top of with the panels.

[silversaver]

I recall I have suggested you to try the calculation on the Northern roof, have you? If you are on a string inverter perhaps do a little calculation and see if it make sense to you. Yes, SP is very expensive but if your have the roof space why not putting fewer more panels at lower overall price but still get the same output. It is all about calculation. Shading is hard to calculate when there's so many unknown factors. Your neighbor's house is really close to yours.