getting Solar evaluated...need some guidance

[jlatenight]

Thanks for the reply JPM. I've had my house assessed for energy efficiency and based on that I added a second layer of insulation in the attic, CFL's, sealed-up all gaps, weather stripping, etc. I have energy efficient appliances. It just seems like trying to understand the whole solar thing is very complicated. Lots of differing opinions, tons of variables, everyone's situation is different, etc. I wish someone could make a fill-in-the-blank worksheet with all the critical info; how much energy I use, the cost of my electricity, and the details from the solar eval I'm getting (size of potential system, output, etc) with the cost and terms of the system minus the rebates incentives, etc to tell me whether it's worth it or not. Does something like that exist?

[prhamilton]

You are going to want to know the annual production estimate in kWh. You can take that number and compute the price/kWh. You will need to decide if you want to use a 20 or 25 year lifetime. But to me the price per kWh is the most important number for your own ROI calculations. He is going to give you the watts DC which is really the size of the system without factoring system efficiency, orientation, shading and sun hours. Price per watt DC is a good number to compare prices between vendors because each vendor is going to use different assumptions to estimate the annual kWh.

You are going to want to understand how he is installing the panels. I've seen some ugly installations. High roof standoffs increase the efficiency of the panels but don't always look so good. Low profiles tend to look better. Conduit runs and inverter location are also important. I don't want conduit running all over the roof and sides of my house. The inverter should be in a cool place that also minimizes the wire runs from the panel. You also probably want it somewhere inconspicuous.

Ask about the equipment. I don't have enough experience with all the different panel manufactures to know if there are any to avoid but others probably do. Same goes for the inverter, powerone and sma seem to be the market leaders.

Is this a local installer or one of the big guys? Make sure whoever it is they know you are getting several quotes, competitive bidding is key to getting a fair price.

Just like buying a car I think it is best to focus on the purchase price first. If you are going to lease handle those terms second, otherwise there are too many variables.

[J.P.M.]

A guy is on my roof taking measurements and assessing its solar potential as we speak. I have a meeting today at 2pm to review his findings. Can you guys come up with a handful of key questions to ask the guy? I guess the main thing to ask besides price is how much wattage the system will generate. What are other questions to ask? Thank's a lot for everyone's help!! -Jon

I'd spend some time rooting around this forum. Read, study, think, learn, repeat. Don't be in a super hurry. If saving money in a cost effective way is a goal, lower your electrical load before adding expensive solar electricity. Throwing solar scatter gun approach at a large electric bill is usually not the most cost effective course of action. Many folks put the cart before the horse and take the solar plunge before they educate themselves and determine what makes the most sense for them. Sounds like you may have jumped over the side without learning to swim yet. Caveat Emptor.

[jlatenight]

A guy is on my roof taking measurements and assessing its solar potential as we speak. I have a meeting today at 2pm to review his findings. Can you guys come up with a handful of key questions to ask the guy? I guess the main thing to ask besides price is how much wattage the system will generate. What are other questions to ask? Thank's a lot for everyone's help!! -Jon

[inetdog]

Maybe it's just semantics but I wonder if it would be easier to sell a home with a PPA instead of a monthly lease. One could argue that with a PPA, you have a long term contract with a separate "power company" to provide a large portion of your electricity at a much lower rate than the regular POCO. "Lease payment" has a negative connotation that a long term deal for a reduced electric rate doesn't.

Perhaps, but it is still a restriction on the power purchase options available to the buyer and so might cause problems. YMMV.
And are PPAs typically written to follow the property, or are there specific exit options if the property changes hands? I have never looked into the details.

[Ian S]

And one of the major factors to take into consideration for a lease other than prepaid or for a PPA is whether you will he keeping the house for the duration of the agreement.

Any lease or PPA with payments scheduled in the future can make selling the house complicated, so look carefully at termination options.

Maybe it's just semantics but I wonder if it would be easier to sell a home with a PPA instead of a monthly lease. One could argue that with a PPA, you have a long term contract with a separate "power company" to provide a large portion of your electricity at a much lower rate than the regular POCO. "Lease payment" has a negative connotation that a long term deal for a reduced electric rate doesn't.

[inetdog]

And one of the major factors to take into consideration for a lease other than prepaid or for a PPA is whether you will he keeping the house for the duration of the agreement.

Any lease or PPA with payments scheduled in the future can make selling the house complicated, so look carefully at termination options.

[russ]

The entire anti leasing thing was just an advertisement for a slimy high pressure sales bunch - you get to their ads at the end.

One can twist and turn most anything with enough effort. If there is a sliver of truth mixed in with a kg of BSit tends to make people believe the statement is correct.

Leases were much more favorable to the leasing company when they first came out. One member is busy trying to determine how to get out of a lease that he apparently got screwed on - which he won't manage.

Today many leases make perfectly good sense - depends on your situation.

[Naptown]

= But if you actually need to borrow the cash or take it out of decent yielding investments or heaven forbid, your IRA/401k, then it's not nearly as clearcut and you have to crunch the numbers to figure it all out. Here are some pros and cons of leasing vs purchase.

vb

Taking it from your 401K may not be as bad as it sounds.
A loan if your job is secure may make sense if your fund is invested very conservatively. At least you are paying the interest to your self

[Ian S]

The guy told me our house was probably the only house on the street that qualifies for solar. I'm at the end of a cul-de-sac and my roof in the front points south with no gables, etc. whereas all the others aren't that same orientation. Was he just blowing smoke, or is that possible? I can't seem to get past the saley pitch and "wow, your house is PERFECT". Am I right to be so skeptical? Can't help but feel like I'm being taken for a ride.

I saw this somewhere: "A PV system adds significant increase in property value. As a general rule, every $1 saved in electricity costs / year translates to an increase of $20 in the property’s value." That can't be, can it??

Also, I found this site: http://www.solarleasebad.com/ that seems to shoot some pretty significant holes in the solar lease. Are all of these (or any) true?

What the salesman likely means is that your orientation is more ideal than others on your street. I'd really doubt that yours is the ONLY one where solar would make sense but without actually seeing the situation, it's hard to know for sure. I would not count on solar adding much if anything to the value of your home. If you have to incorporate that into your numbers to make them work out then solar is probably not a very good deal for you. As for that anti-lease site, I stopped reading at the following:

With advancements occurring weekly in the lab, 20 years is an eternity in the solar industry. Imagine your neighbors installing the latest sleekest, high efficiency solar panels on their roofs 10 years from now while you're stuck with the same antique solar panels for another 10 years.

That statement is one of the most idiotic I've seen. Only a complete fool would tear out and replace a working solar system just to get the sleekest and latest panels to keep up with the neighbors! IMHO, even though some good points are made regarding leasing, I wouldn't trust the author any more than I would a Kirby salesman.

Yes, the lease makes the lessor and its backers a lot of money but it's mostly at others' expense not yours. If you have the cash available and sitting in a bank savings account then by all means buy the system outright. But if you actually need to borrow the cash or take it out of decent yielding investments or heaven forbid, your IRA/401k, then it's not nearly as clearcut and you have to crunch the numbers to figure it all out. Here are some pros and cons of leasing vs purchase.

[Volusiano]

The guy told me our house was probably the only house on the street that qualifies for solar. I'm at the end of a cul-de-sac and my roof in the front points south with no gables, etc. whereas all the others aren't that same orientation. Was he just blowing smoke, or is that possible? I can't seem to get past the saley pitch and "wow, your house is PERFECT". Am I right to be so skeptical? Can't help but feel like I'm being taken for a ride.

I saw this somewhere: "A PV system adds significant increase in property value. As a general rule, every $1 saved in electricity costs / year translates to an increase of $20 in the property’s value." That can't be, can it??

Also, I found this sitexxxxxxx that seems to shoot some pretty significant holes in the solar lease. Are all of these (or any) true?

Maybe your house is one on the street that can give you optimal solar production. But using the word "qualify" is iffy. Other houses I'm sure can benefit from solar, too, although maybe not optimal like yours to produce the most energy due to orientation.

Conventional wisdom says PV system may not add much value to your house. It depends on whether your real estate agent knows how to market it or not. And whether the buyer appreciates it or not. It's really a crapshoot and I wouldn't count on it adding too much value to the house. If I don't plan on staying in the house for more than 10 years at least, I wouldn't invest on solar panels on it.

Wow, that web site sure is anti-lease for solar. I bought my system so I don't have much to say about leasing. But if I did lease, I would probably have gone with a prepaid lease, not a normal lease.

[jlatenight]

The guy told me our house was probably the only house on the street that qualifies for solar. I'm at the end of a cul-de-sac and my roof in the front points south with no gables, etc. whereas all the others aren't that same orientation. Was he just blowing smoke, or is that possible? I can't seem to get past the saley pitch and "wow, your house is PERFECT". Am I right to be so skeptical? Can't help but feel like I'm being taken for a ride.

I saw this somewhere: "A PV system adds significant increase in property value. As a general rule, every $1 saved in electricity costs / year translates to an increase of $20 in the property’s value." That can't be, can it??

Also, I found this sitexxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxthat seems to shoot some pretty significant holes in the solar lease. Are all of these (or any) true?

[russ]

Somehow, I don't think Russ would have been cut out to be a Kirby salesman.

The exposure the ultra high pressure sales techniques was interesting if somewhat off putting.

Later I had a friend of a friend who was a siding salesman - one of the shyster types going after the people that really can't afford to get screwed (again). His supposed claim to fame was that he claimed to be Dan Marino's uncle. He was more than a bit shady!

[Ian S]

Tell me more about these Kirby vacuums. Do you have any special discounts today?

Somehow, I don't think Russ would have been cut out to be a Kirby salesman.

[russ]

Tell me more about these Kirby vacuums. Do you have any special discounts today?

After I got suckered into starting the class I spent the week or ten days listening - never did even demonstrate one of the things. Good but horribly over priced! I still remember the salesman doing the training, frayed shirt collar and all.

But I will see what I can find for you - with a small commission of course. Freight might be a bit much from here though.