Buying a home existing solar...

[J.P.M.]

Russ, I'm not sure you have a good grasp of the meaning of the verb "whine." One would be guilty of whining when for example, every time a solar system purchaser discusses the great deal they got after tax credits and utility rebates, the whiner takes to the comments to complain about the existence of such credits and rebates.

I thought a whine was a rant that got tweaked.

J.P.M.

[russ]

So far so good! Hope it keeps up!

[fishinfirefighter]

Update.

So I still havent heard from the leasing company since we spoke last week Im sure the lawyers are scratching their heads and trying to come up with something. I spoke with another real estate attorney just to be sure I was getting good legal advice and the other attorney also felt basically the same. "Unless they have the most flawless lease contract on the planet and filed with the state it will be VERY difficult for them to legally repossess the system at this point." He was shocked they hadnt taken it back after sitting for so long. The problem is that noone has ever heard of anything like this before, the companies are usually taken care of during foreclosure or allowed to remove the system.

I just stopped by the property on my way home from work and the inverters are PVP3500 and a PVP2500, are these any good? Im assuming the 2500 and 3500 are watts? So basically its a 6kw system?? Also everything was on but the main meter was off so they obviously havent been rolling the meter back for these 2 years its been sitting which adds to the case if they legally could take it back they would have by now. I looked closer at the installation and theres not a Judge, Jury or court anywhere that wouldnt consider it a permanent fixture OR that it would not cause a good amount of damage to remove!! All the electrical conduit runs through the home then pops back out to the inverters, the tile roof has been more than just slightly modified to accept the panels as well. Everything has been drilled and anchored through the tiles that they cut.
Anyway Ill keep updating...

[SunEagle]

You two know there is an ignore button I presume

Wheres the fun in that?

[Naptown]

You two know there is an ignore button I presume

[Ian S]

Not nice for a senior citizen to whine.

Russ, I'm not sure you have a good grasp of the meaning of the verb "whine." One would be guilty of whining when for example, every time a solar system purchaser discusses the great deal they got after tax credits and utility rebates, the whiner takes to the comments to complain about the existence of such credits and rebates.

[russ]

Yeah and so what?

Not nice for a senior citizen to whine.

[Naptown]

Looks as if this is not the first time this has happened..

Check this out for a good read, my lawyer just forwarded it to me.

http://greenzu.com/invest-advice/protect-solar-ppa-seizure-foreclosure

They lost it almost instantly upon foreclosure well over a year ago. They knew it too which is why its still there. The existing roof is tile and the tiles were obviously altered to accept the mounting of the system, therefore it is a permanent fixture. Removing the system would leave damage which according to the law deems it a fixture. Also lines run through the structure itself which also according to the law say... yes its a fixture and foreclosure made it property of the bank. One more thing, the panels are arranged in a custom setting to conform to the roof.

That meets the first two criteria of the test but as the article said the third test if intent is the dominant one.
Don't know what their lease said
A lawyer would have to unravel this with the bank and see if the proper paperwork was filed and wether they have lost their right to repossess

[Ian S]

Looks as if this is not the first time this has happened..

Check this out for a good read, my lawyer just forwarded it to me.

http://greenzu.com/invest-advice/protect-solar-ppa-seizure-foreclosure

They lost it almost instantly upon foreclosure well over a year ago. They knew it too which is why its still there. The existing roof is tile and the tiles were obviously altered to accept the mounting of the system, therefore it is a permanent fixture. Removing the system would leave damage which according to the law deems it a fixture. Also lines run through the structure itself which also according to the law say... yes its a fixture and foreclosure made it property of the bank. One more thing, the panels are arranged in a custom setting to conform to the roof.

According to the article:

The clearest way to show intent is for the lender/vendor and the building owner to agree in writing that the item is not to be treated as a fixture. This express intent will be the most important factor in the three part test, unless the solar’s separate identity is lost through its use. The separate identity can be lost when the solar cannot be removed without practically destroying the solar or the building, or when the solar becomes essential to support the structure to which it is attached.

I'll bet the lease has the agreement for the solar to be treated as personal property. However, if they never made a "fixture filing", that weakens their argument. Still, I doubt you could argue that removing the panels would "practically [destroy] the solar or the building." But you are faultless here and I suspect a court would be sympathetic to your plight. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

[Ian S]

Ian - As I remember you were quite insistent that there is no reason for a lawyer to go over leases a few months back.

Yeah and so what? There is nothing in my lease that specifically covers the situation pertaining to O.P. who purchased the house from another party following foreclosure on the original lessee. My lease as well as others I've seen were in pretty plain English so I know my responsibilities as a lessee. I sure wasn't going to hire a lawyer to speculate about what would happen if I was foreclosed upon and someone years down the pike bought the house and got into a wrangle over who owned what!!!

[fishinfirefighter]

Looks as if this is not the first time this has happened..

Check this out for a good read, my lawyer just forwarded it to me.

http://greenzu.com/invest-advice/protect-solar-ppa-seizure-foreclosure

They lost it almost instantly upon foreclosure well over a year ago. They knew it too which is why its still there. The existing roof is tile and the tiles were obviously altered to accept the mounting of the system, therefore it is a permanent fixture. Removing the system would leave damage which according to the law deems it a fixture. Also lines run through the structure itself which also according to the law say... yes its a fixture and foreclosure made it property of the bank. One more thing, the panels are arranged in a custom setting to conform to the roof.

[Naptown]

Perhaps it would best to be left to a lawyer in his jurisdiction who knows the local laws and leave us jailhouse lawyers out of it

[SoCalsolar]

Fire

Who is the leasing company? and did you figure out the equipment? I hope all this good news is true and you get the system.

[russ]

Ian - As I remember you were quite insistent that there is no reason for a lawyer to go over leases a few months back.

[Ian S]

Pertinent paragraphs from my lease:

9. System is Personal Property: The parties intend that the System be and remain at all times personal property and not fixtures (or real property) regardless of whether it is attached to real property. You agree, at our request, to notify any mortgagee or holder of a deed of trust on the Premises of the installation and existence of the System, that it is leased from Lessor, and that the System constitutes personal property and not fixtures (or real property).

10. UCC and Real Estate Filings: If the System is located in California, you agree that Lessor may record a Notice of an Independent Solar Energy Producer Contract with the county recorder’s office, pursuant to Section 2869 of the California Public Utilities Code. If the System is located in any other State, you consent to any regulatory or governmental filing that is consistent with this Lease and applicable law, including a formal notice of this Lease which, among other things, provides record notice that the System is not a fixture to the Premises. You hereby authorize Lessor and its agent(s) to file in the public records, including real estate records, such other instruments as may be appropriate or desirable (such as precautionary UCC financing statement(s) and fixture filing(s)) to put others on notice of Lessor’s interests in the System. You also agree, if Lessor so requests, to execute and permit Lessor or its agents to record in the applicable real estate records an easement to the effect that Lessor has the right to access the Property for the purposes described in Section 23 below and to use reasonable best efforts to obtain the consent of any mortgagee(s) of the Property to this Lease or the disclaimer by such mortgagee(s) to any interest in the System.

Looks to me like the lessor may be screwed if they didn't file "fixture filings" on the system. At most, it would seem that the lessor's beef is with the original lessee but that time window may have closed.

So, fishinfirefighter, if you wind up owning the system, do you have the chutzpah to ask the leasing company if they will continue the maintenance on the system? At least ask for warranty transfers! LOL.