Solar Contract Signed with Sunpower

[ajpslp]

Wow, I can't believe that they get on the roof to install panels in the middle of winter with the snow and the cold. I guess you gotta keep working to pay the bills.

True !! Sent them pic of roof and they said most likely see them tomorrow to continue, but yes gonna feel like 10 degrees tomorrow !!! crazy but install so far is neat and installers are great !

[Volusiano]

Wow, I can't believe that they get on the roof to install panels in the middle of winter with the snow and the cold. I guess you gotta keep working to pay the bills.

[Mr. Vegas]

mounts are installed , got the low profile mounts and all done but weather changed and 11 inches of snow delayed the panel install . Probably coming tomorrow to begin that process. Possible electrician this week. Panels are in yard though so i should be good to go sooner then later

It might be another few days till they can get up on the roof, NYC is dropping into -10F (with windchills) and probably won't be above zero for another few days.

[ajpslp]

mounts are installed , got the low profile mounts and all done but weather changed and 11 inches of snow delayed the panel install . Probably coming tomorrow to begin that process. Possible electrician this week. Panels are in yard though so i should be good to go sooner then later

[silversaver]

my project manager was here a week after we had the system on and we were just chit chatting and he mentioned that his father's solar system has a SMA inverter that is 23 years old and still going strong, so he thinks the 13-18 year replacement estimate can be fairly conservative. obviously this is just one example, but my system was already paid for and completed so he really had no reason to say it or make it up.

That is the old transformer inverters. The new transformerless inverters are lighter (87lbs) and cooler. I'm sure they will last pretty long if you place them at right location and in door. I was thinking to get the extended 20 yrs warranty for $550, but decided not to.

[bando]

W.r.t. having to replace the inverters every 6-10 years like you said, it's more likely to be around 10-20 years, because most inverters are warrantied for 10-15 years. In the case of SMA inverters (which I have), most installers in my areas offer 15 year warranty because that's the warranty the mfg gives them. In my case, my installer offers 20 year warranty parts & labor for the whole system, inverters included. Maybe they paid a little extra to buy an additional 5 year warranty from SMA? But I've seen SMA warranty to range anywhere from 5 years to 20 years. It's just a matter of paying extra to SMA to extend the warranty.

my project manager was here a week after we had the system on and we were just chit chatting and he mentioned that his father's solar system has a SMA inverter that is 23 years old and still going strong, so he thinks the 13-18 year replacement estimate can be fairly conservative. obviously this is just one example, but my system was already paid for and completed so he really had no reason to say it or make it up.

[Mr. Vegas]

So, your $131/mo for 20 years would be roughly equivalent to borrowing the $20K @ 5% to buy the system outright. That's a pretty good interest rate. Especially considering that you don't have the huge upfront $45K along with waiting for rebates and tax credits. And you have some peace of mind regarding maintenance and repairs. Now at the end of 20 years, you won't own the system but at that point will you really care? Time for a new roof or at least major repairs anyway then. I guess the only question will be how easy it will be to sell your house along with a lease payment. But your savings in the electric bill are so large, that shouldn"t be too difficult I would think.

My brother has SunRun in NJ. 20 year lease. His house was built 3 years ago, 3,800 sq. feet (legal 2 family house). He pays $78 per month to Sunrun today for a 7kw system. It offsets total usage for one electric meter, the other part of the house is not covered and the tenants pay PSE&G directly. He is in the process of selling the house and all of the buyers looked at the solar system and the lease and didn't even consider it as an issue. They were more interested in installing another kitchen to re-CO the house into a three family. They were happy to see that they could pay less electricity, he just showed them the old PSE&G bills from a few years ago and none of them have denied to accept the lease. This all depends on where in the country you live and how hungry people are for good real estate and what they are willing to take and let go, along with the cost of power in your area.

[Ian S]

I relooked at paperwork since its been a long time since i negotiated etc. The purchase price was AFTER all rebates etc around $20k, but had to spot the $45k or so up front and war for rebates to come in. So after all said in done I would be around $20k to buy it. Sorry for y miscalculations. the lease is zero down and lease for $131 a month with no increases. The system is 12.04 kw, one inverter, low profile mounts starting tomorrow am
NYSERDA rebate was $16k when i reigned my lease

So, your $131/mo for 20 years would be roughly equivalent to borrowing the $20K @ 5% to buy the system outright. That's a pretty good interest rate. Especially considering that you don't have the huge upfront $45K along with waiting for rebates and tax credits. And you have some peace of mind regarding maintenance and repairs. Now at the end of 20 years, you won't own the system but at that point will you really care? Time for a new roof or at least major repairs anyway then. I guess the only question will be how easy it will be to sell your house along with a lease payment. But your savings in the electric bill are so large, that shouldn"t be too difficult I would think.

[Volusiano]

Which is why all of the real work is done by their "office managers".

Well, my agent is also the office manager. I believe she knows what she's talking about.

[inetdog]

Most agents are too stupid to know what they are selling.

Which is why all of the real work is done by their "office managers".

[russ]

For insurance people in each state need to talk to their own insurance company - not their agent. Years back I had a problem getting coverage for when my home was empty for long periods of time when I was outside the US working. After getting baloney from a number of agents I found one that understood what he was selling.

In NC, what a policy covers, doesn't cover and the details are spelt out by state law/regulation. Most agents are too stupid to know what they are selling.

[Volusiano]

Oh I definitely plan to lease, I was more interested as to how other members that have purchased large systems 10kw+ have insured the systems.

Since you asked, I have an 11KW system and I informed my insurance agent to add it to my homeowner insurance policy. After she reviewed the details, she added it in at no increase in premium. I live in AZ. Of course we don't have hurricane or tornado to worry about in AZ.

[Mr. Vegas]

Mr. Vegas:

Good evening !

Respectfully:

I do not know, nor am I qualified to offer an intelligent opinion on the subject of insurance. I'd respectfully suggest you try to wring something cogent out of your agent and, as you are probably more aware then I - get it in writing or check with legal counsel, or both. Caveat Emptor. To repeat: I am NOT, nor do I claim to be qualified to offer advice about insurance matters. I just added my array to my homeowner's policy on recent renewal. My premium went up some but there were other improvements that I suspect influenced that increase more. I expected a premium increase, and I'd guess if broken out the array added something like 50 bucks to my annual premium. That does not include what may be the CA equiv. of hurricane ins. = earthquake insurance. I'm going bareback on that on the theory that fortune favors the bold (or God loves morons). As a SWAG, if Dolly Parton can get her bOObs insured, I wouldn't be surprised to find someone willing to write a policy to cover airborne panels and at least some of the collateral damage they might do. But I DO NOT KNOW.

Thanks JPM, I wasn't expecting you to offer anything even remotely approaching expert advisement, but just more of what you did from a personal nature. Appreciate you letting me know. The insurance premium was negligible in your case, it may not be in my geographical area.

[J.P.M.]

JPM:

If I buy a system, what type of insurance is out there to cover damage to the panels/system from hurricanes? From what I understand, some homeowner policies cover it and others don't. After we suffered through hurricane Sandy, a lot of homeowner policies were denying certain types of claims. I would hate to own a system to only fight with an insurance company for coverage. That is also one of my considerations for leasing because they cover damage to the system even from inclement weather events. With something on my roof for the next 20 years, there is a very high likelihood that we are going to see another impactful weather event on LI, especially with the varying weather systems we've been experiencing.

Mr. Vegas:

Good evening !

Respectfully:

I do not know, nor am I qualified to offer an intelligent opinion on the subject of insurance. I'd respectfully suggest you try to wring something cogent out of your agent and, as you are probably more aware then I - get it in writing or check with legal counsel, or both. Caveat Emptor. To repeat: I am NOT, nor do I claim to be qualified to offer advice about insurance matters. I just added my array to my homeowner's policy on recent renewal. My premium went up some but there were other improvements that I suspect influenced that increase more. I expected a premium increase, and I'd guess if broken out the array added something like 50 bucks to my annual premium. That does not include what may be the CA equiv. of hurricane ins. = earthquake insurance. I'm going bareback on that on the theory that fortune favors the bold (or God loves morons). As a SWAG, if Dolly Parton can get her bOObs insured, I wouldn't be surprised to find someone willing to write a policy to cover airborne panels and at least some of the collateral damage they might do. But I DO NOT KNOW.

[ajpslp]

Hmmm, I don't want to say that but you just sounds like solar lease sales rep...

On the purchase, there is no sunch thing as 32k to 35k. When you buy something, you get a fix price. When you mention 32k to 35k, I think you really don't know what is your purchase price or you just have no idea at all.

Your calculation is very simple for $130 per months X 12 months = $1560 then X 20 years = $31,200. That is for $0 down and $130 per month right?

Ok, great deal. So you are tell us that your solar company will let you lease the solar system that will cost you net of $32k but let you pay them for the next 20 years for less?

Here is a link for someone been quoted at NY:

http://www.solarpaneltalk.com/showthread.php?12908-Quoting-our-first-system-NYS&highlight=york

This is what he wrote:

22 SunPower SPR-240ACPV modules split over two roofs
Unirac mounts
5.28KW nominal
5.4kW actual annual usage
About 80% solar access before I get off my arse and have some trees trimmed

Installed cost: 24,2k
NYSERDA rebate to installer $6.864k (@$1.3 per Watt)
Total after rebate: $17.336k
NY Tax credit 25% $4.334k
Fed Tax credit (30%) off gross $7260
or
Fed Tax credit (30%) off net $5200.8

I relooked at paperwork since its been a long time since i negotiated etc. The purchase price was AFTER all rebates etc around $20k, but had to spot the $45k or so up front and war for rebates to come in. So after all said in done I would be around $20k to buy it. Sorry for y miscalculations. the lease is zero down and lease for $131 a month with no increases. The system is 12.04 kw, one inverter, low profile mounts starting tomorrow am
NYSERDA rebate was $16k when i reigned my lease