New Smart Panel sounds like a great system

[mjs020294]

I have an Emporia also. Compared to the Sense it is a better value. The Sense was never able to recognize many of my loads. I sold it on Ebay.

Emporia is definitely competitively priced. Have you integrated into your solar?

[Ampster]

I have an Emporia also. Compared to the Sense it is a better value. The Sense was never able to recognize many of my loads. I sold it on Ebay.

[mjs020294]

I agree with you that smart panels and monitoring are probably part of the future, but I question calling or implying that those who embrace such features at the expense of learning the basics as the tech savvy. I consider such folks quite the opposite.
Beginning around the early '90's when as an engineering supervisor - and always on the lookout for talent - I'd interview folks for engineering and design positions and had a ringside seat to observe the changes in attitude toward what was considered knowledge. For example, I'd question a candidate about how (s)he would approach a design challenge. If someone's response involved throwing software at it, the interview was quickly terminated. That type of response became more common over my engineering career in pretty much inverse proportion to the lack or loss of critical thinking skills as they relate to how engineers think and look at the world. Seems to me things are now at a point where it's more about buzzwords than analysis with folks quicker to adopt the latest marketing catchphrase than they are to actually try to understand what all the stuff they're google eyed about means or understand that most of it is of little use compared to the basics.

I'm glad I'm retired but sad to watch what seems more and more like the great and seemingly unstoppable dumbing of America.

You do realize that one of the few areas America has excelled over the last 2-3 decades is technology. Older less tech savvy folks often struggle adapting to new technology. I see it with my father who incidentally was a very senior engineer for 45+ years. Although he would definitely see the benefits of Smart panels and technology in general he has problems navigating new technology.

There is massive value to a monitoring system capturing 1.8 million data points a day whether you're a novice or a highly qualified electrical engineer.

[J.P.M.]

Its much easier having 24/7 monitoring on 16+ circuits. Using simply equipment I would need to remove the panel cover, which can't be done without moving my car. Then it would take lots of trial and error and walking back and forth to trouble shoot; not to mention writing down data and entering into spreadsheets. The APP has history, reporting and filtering; practically impossible to replicate with simple tools.

it might not be for everyone, especially the older less tech savvy crowd, but smart panels and monitoring will be the future. All that collected data in the cloud will be very powerful once harnessed properly.

I agree with you that smart panels and monitoring are probably part of the future, but I question calling or implying that those who embrace such features at the expense of learning the basics as the tech savvy. I consider such folks quite the opposite.
Beginning around the early '90's when as an engineering supervisor - and always on the lookout for talent - I'd interview folks for engineering and design positions and had a ringside seat to observe the changes in attitude toward what was considered knowledge. For example, I'd question a candidate about how (s)he would approach a design challenge. If someone's response involved throwing software at it, the interview was quickly terminated. That type of response became more common over my engineering career in pretty much inverse proportion to the lack or loss of critical thinking skills as they relate to how engineers think and look at the world. Seems to me things are now at a point where it's more about buzzwords than analysis with folks quicker to adopt the latest marketing catchphrase than they are to actually try to understand what all the stuff they're google eyed about means or understand that most of it is of little use compared to the basics.

I'm glad I'm retired but sad to watch what seems more and more like the great and seemingly unstoppable dumbing of America.

[mjs020294]

Understood. All my data is also on a spreadsheet. Makes life a lot easier.

My point is, besides the esoteric goal of losing some independence, I don't see the need to spend a lot of money for tools and equipment when the same goals and information can be attained with simple equipment and simple arithmetic skills.

I see folks around here and elsewhere spending all kinds of money and time on equipment getting a lot of data of often questionable value and they don't know the difference between a kW and a kWh. Guess I'm out of touch and missing something.

Its much easier having 24/7 monitoring on 16+ circuits. Using simply equipment I would need to remove the panel cover, which can't be done without moving my car. Then it would take lots of trial and error and walking back and forth to trouble shoot; not to mention writing down data and entering into spreadsheets. The APP has history, reporting and filtering; practically impossible to replicate with simple tools.

it might not be for everyone, especially the older less tech savvy crowd, but smart panels and monitoring will be the future. All that collected data in the cloud will be very powerful once harnessed properly.

[scrambler]

For me the reporting is most importantly about one thing, and it is monitoring for problems, and help diagnose when problems come up (and boy have I had some...)

Most homeowners don't monitor their system, and so they have no clue their system is not providing the expected return, unless it becomes catastrophic.
The other perverse effect from that is that installers are so use not to have to deal with problems, that when you come to them with evidence there is something wrong, they look at you like you are a pain in their butt.


Some of the side benefits are:
Keeping an eye on my overall consumption vs solar production vs PVwatt
Track my overall battery discharge to make sure I am in the SGIP requirement
Being able to use the app to verify if something is on that should or should not when I am not here.

[J.P.M.]

The APP is very useful on the unit I have. I can go around the house switching things off and see the load drop real time. They also have smart plugs so I have a spare simply for testing things over a day or two. Its been quite useful understanding the wiring and usage in our home. All you data can be download into excel as well which might be useful at some point.

Understood. All my data is also on a spreadsheet. Makes life a lot easier.

My point is, besides the esoteric goal of losing some independence, I don't see the need to spend a lot of money for tools and equipment when the same goals and information can be attained with simple equipment and simple arithmetic skills.

I see folks around here and elsewhere spending all kinds of money and time on equipment getting a lot of data of often questionable value and they don't know the difference between a kW and a kWh. Guess I'm out of touch and missing something.

[mjs020294]

Thank you.

Similar to Bruce, I got my parasitic loads down to about 60-80 W or so and I know where all but maybe 20-30 W of those loads come from. Eazy process. Just a $25 Kill-a-Watt meter and some snooping.

The APP is very useful on the unit I have. I can go around the house switching things off and see the load drop real time. They also have smart plugs so I have a spare simply for testing things over a day or two. Its been quite useful understanding the wiring and usage in our home. All you data can be download into excel as well which might be useful at some point.

[J.P.M.]

It gives you the real time energy consumption in seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years. So you can see exactly what each circuit you attach a sensor to is consuming. In my case the following were brought to my attention:

1. I noticed a 300w draw on a circuit that should have been drawing a much less. It turned out to be a LED strip light on a parcel shelf that was there when we bought the house. It was an old AC strip light and several sections had actually burnt out. Replacing the old strip with a new 30w strip will save around 270w six hours a day. Plus the old light was actually a fire risk. The new strip will use 1.6KWh less a day.
2. I noticed an unusual load on another circuit that covered two bedrooms and a living room. After a little trial and testing using one of their smart plugs I tracked it down to a UPS battery backup on my router and computers. It was drawing 200watts and was running 24/7. Removed it saving 4.8KWh a day.
3. During the early morning warm up I noticed the heat strip was kicking in. This was mainly because we have the house at 67f overnight and it switches to 70f around 7:00am. The thermostat switches the heat strip on if there is a 2f delta and heat pump doesn't start raising the temperature in 10-15 minutes. Altered our thermostat schedule to include two additional time zones raising the temperature to 68f and 69f before it calls for 70f. It takes the heat pump a little longer to raise the temperature but the heat strip draws 10KW so the net result is probably 2KWh a day in the colder months.

The three things above will probably reduce my bill be 6-7KWh a day over the course of the year. So 6KWh x 365 = 2,190KWh = $274 (12.5cents a unit). Easily covering the $149 I paid for the energy monitor.

Thank you.

Similar to Bruce, I got my parasitic loads down to about 60-80 W or so and I know where all but maybe 20-30 W of those loads come from. Eazy process. Just a $25 Kill-a-Watt meter and some snooping.

[mjs020294]

Q: In what ways did it pay for itself ?i

It gives you the real time energy consumption in seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, months and years. So you can see exactly what each circuit you attach a sensor to is consuming. In my case the following were brought to my attention:

1. I noticed a 300w draw on a circuit that should have been drawing a much less. It turned out to be a LED strip light on a parcel shelf that was there when we bought the house. It was an old AC strip light and several sections had actually burnt out. Replacing the old strip with a new 30w strip will save around 270w six hours a day. Plus the old light was actually a fire risk. The new strip will use 1.6KWh less a day.
2. I noticed an unusual load on another circuit that covered two bedrooms and a living room. After a little trial and testing using one of their smart plugs I tracked it down to a UPS battery backup on my router and computers. It was drawing 200watts and was running 24/7. Removed it saving 4.8KWh a day.
3. During the early morning warm up I noticed the heat strip was kicking in. This was mainly because we have the house at 67f overnight and it switches to 70f around 7:00am. The thermostat switches the heat strip on if there is a 2f delta and heat pump doesn't start raising the temperature in 10-15 minutes. Altered our thermostat schedule to include two additional time zones raising the temperature to 68f and 69f before it calls for 70f. It takes the heat pump a little longer to raise the temperature but the heat strip draws 10KW so the net result is probably 2KWh a day in the colder months.

The three things above will probably reduce my bill be 6-7KWh a day over the course of the year. So 6KWh x 365 = 2,190KWh = $274 (12.5cents a unit). Easily covering the $149 I paid for the energy monitor.

[J.P.M.]

Totally agree on the Emporia. I looked at units a few months ago and most were in the $300 range. Even at $150 I was slightly hesitant but it literally paid for itself inside 24 hours. Having the data and insight on your consumption is very empowering.

Q: In what ways did it pay for itself ?i

[heimdm]

I have Brultech green energy monitors. They monitor up to 32 channels each. They don't have a cool mobile app like Emporia.

[mjs020294]

I have an Emporia too and love it!
You cannot beat the functionality for the price.

Totally agree on the Emporia. I looked at units a few months ago and most were in the $300 range. Even at $150 I was slightly hesitant but it literally paid for itself inside 24 hours. Having the data and insight on your consumption is very empowering.

[scrambler]

I have an Emporia too and love it!
You cannot beat the functionality for the price.

[mjs020294]

$3,500 + installation.

Ouch.

Yes its price prohibitive at the moment. I am guessing the install would cost $2,000. Hopefully the price will drop and competition will enter the market.

I added a Emporia Smart Home Energy Monitor attached to 16 circuits and also added four of their smart plugs. Reading their literature it looks like they are planning on moving more towards Smart control of the circuits. The energy monitor I installed paid for itself twice over in the first day. It helped me identify a faulty UPS battery backup that was drawing 3KWh a day; an old LED strip that was pulling 300w and it was burnt out in several places plus I noticed my AC heat strip was kicking in during the morning warm up. Fixed all three issues and reduced our consumption by 7KWh a day. Best $150 I have spent in a while and I held off on buying it because I thought it was a luxury.