New Smart Panel sounds like a great system

[GTAZ]

hmmm ... Smart panels sound like a nice toy (Sol-Ark also has one btw), but when i start to think it through, I don't see the justification.
Back up from the details for a moment and consider exactly what it is you're buying. It's basically a system that turns things off. So if you are in a commercial environment, with lots of people running around that you can't control that might turn things on, having a way to control what is powered/not powered might be a need. But in your home? Really? Maybe just teach your family not to use the electric dryer or turn on the AC when the power is out. How hard is that?

If your system is very small, and you want to make sure you only power the bare essential, then maybe, but it's a very questionable maybe, because for the $3500 price tag, you could just add more capacity to your solar or battery systems. You'll get a much better return from increasing your system capacity than buying a fancy switch. You could even buy a low cost generator and a transfer switch and it will be years before you burn enough gas to hit that $3500 mark. Maybe there's a use case I haven't thought of, but I just can see the justification for an expensive switch for a home owner scenario. Just turn stuff off - It's free ha ha

[mjs020294]

Is Emporia data available when the internet goes down? I have read data is pushed to the cloud then down to the app, but it's nice to get data from real users.

I run Home Assistant with Shelly EM's behind my firewall so I don't pay much attention to the cloud.

Data is pushed to the cloud. From what I have seen if WiFi goes down the unit caches data until the internet connection is established. My Router and WiFi is on a battery back up so downtime is very rare.

I have been tracking the systems accuracy against the electric meter over the last few days; it seems to match the meter to +/- 0.3KWh over a 24 hour period. The slight difference might be some sort of timing issue or just the way the meter turns the single digit cog. On the Emporia side I have managed to get 96% of our consumption picked up by the 16 sensors, which is pretty good on a panel with 27 breakers. Two or three the mapped breakers aren't using much so I will play around and try to increase the monitoring rate above 96%.

All in all I think the Emporia is amazing value for $149. Easy to install, accurate and a great app.

[oregon_phil]

I would highly recommend to the Emporia VUE 2 to anyone remotely interested in energy conservation. Having the power of 1.8 million data points a day on your phone or tablet is very informative and empowering.

It saved me another 60w a hour over the weekend. I noticed a garage circuit was drawing power 24/7; that isn't so unusual because I have multiple tools on charge and a treadmill and bike on stand bye. However the draw was a little higher than I was expecting so I started shutting everything down. The final 60w turned out to be a fluorescent light in the attic over the garage we use for storage. Its an older unit so sometimes doesn't switch on straightway. Last time I was up there I must have switched it on but the light didn't actually come on before I shut the hatch. That was over two weeks ago and I might not have gone back up there until after thanks giving to retrieve the Xmas decorations.

Is Emporia data available when the internet goes down? I have read data is pushed to the cloud then down to the app, but it's nice to get data from real users.

I run Home Assistant with Shelly EM's behind my firewall so I don't pay much attention to the cloud.

[mjs020294]

The Smart panels are still very expensive and are only truly beneficial in you PV and battery backup. In that scenario they because very powerful at energy management, especially during power outages. Hopefully more competition will enter the market and prices will drop. My biggest concern is replacing a time tested robust circuit board with something equipped with high tech electronics. Hopefully the smart panels are designed with maintenance in mind allowing easy switch out of the WiFi module and other components. My suspicion is they have not built easy maintenance into the design.

[DanS26]

I use the TED system installed well over ten years ago. I monitor 28 circuits. I bought the TED originally to gain an understanding of my loads before investing in solar.

Over the years it has evolved to be my solar system monitoring device. I have a matched set of string inverters connected to eight strings of 12 panels each. Each inverter connected to 4 strings that are matched in orientation and power. The TED system monitors the inverter outputs so that any discrepancies in output are immediately noticed. Since everything is evenly matched it is a simple matter of tracking down performance problems immediately. It has allowed me to completely skip the added cost of panel level monitoring.

The TED system was early to this game and I would say it is expensive when compared to the competition now. I use it also to feed PVOutput.org and to monitor my EV kWh consumption.

[mjs020294]

I would highly recommend to the Emporia VUE 2 to anyone remotely interested in energy conservation. Having the power of 1.8 million data points a day on your phone or tablet is very informative and empowering.

It saved me another 60w a hour over the weekend. I noticed a garage circuit was drawing power 24/7; that isn't so unusual because I have multiple tools on charge and a treadmill and bike on stand bye. However the draw was a little higher than I was expecting so I started shutting everything down. The final 60w turned out to be a fluorescent light in the attic over the garage we use for storage. Its an older unit so sometimes doesn't switch on straightway. Last time I was up there I must have switched it on but the light didn't actually come on before I shut the hatch. That was over two weeks ago and I might not have gone back up there until after thanks giving to retrieve the Xmas decorations.

[Ampster]

Anyone going to the effort of purchasing and installing an energy monitor is probably going to utilize the information. You don't have to any understanding of electrical systems or solar to have an active interest in energy conservation. So worst case scenario the energy monitor helps the user make some energy saving changes; best case they can utilize the integrated things like notifications to help diagnose potential issues.

I agree with your theory. Most of the "ignorant" people referred to in the earlier post are irrelevant to the topic at hand. I don't base any decisions on what ignorant people do or don't do. As a tool for optimal energy conservation I have found these type of energy monitoring devices very useful.

[mjs020294]

The value you write of may exist but my point is that such information is of little useful worth to those too ignorant to understand and differentiate what's important and what's not.

You have the last word.

Anyone going to the effort of purchasing and installing an energy monitor is probably going to utilize the information. You don't have to any understanding of electrical systems or solar to have an active interest in energy conservation. So worst case scenario the energy monitor helps the user make some energy saving changes; best case they can utilize the integrated things like notifications to help diagnose potential issues.

[mjs020294]

Yes, I have it measuring my solar and since it records data every minute the output is more useful short term than the Enlighten app from Enphase which seems to lag by up to a half hour. I am going to double up some of my circuits that share a neutral because most of them are not significant loads and I want to use the CTs on some loads that are more variable.

The notification and alerts are also very useful. Not only to monitor consumption but to highlight potential issues like a failing capacitor on your compressor.

[Ampster]

Emporia is definitely competitively priced. Have you integrated into your solar?

Yes, I have the Emporia measuring my solar and since it records data every minute the output is more useful short term than the Enlighten app from Enphase which seems to lag by up to a half hour. I am going to double up some of my circuits that share a neutral because most of them are not significant loads and I want to use the CTs on some loads that are more variable.

[solardreamer]

Yet, they lack the key component to make it truly useful for such systems, except Tesla which uses a different logic with their gateway.

Just the fact that it requires integration with home battery seems very limiting. The number of home battery installations is growing but still a tiny fraction of all houses.

[scrambler]

Company told me it's mostly used in solar/home battery projects and it requires integration with the home battery (only Tesla and LG supported so far?).

Yet, they lack the key component to make it truly useful for such systems, except Tesla which uses a different logic with their gateway.

[solardreamer]

Digging further, it actually looks like this is only a great system for tesla Powerwall / Gateway configuration.

At first, I saw on their website they had the option for a Transfer switch inside the panel but asking them more details about how the panel connects with regular Hybrid Inverter / battery system, they said they no longer support that option.

The way they configure regular hybrid inverter is by just connecting the Samrt panel to the Inverter critical load panel output.
If that is the case, then the Panel is ALWAYS limited by the Inverter critical Load output power (even when grid is up), and therefore you cannot actually move ALL the house load in there.

To allow the Smart panel to contain all House load (replace all panels), you would need a transfer switch so that when the grid is up, the Smart panel is connected directly to the grid, allowing enough power for all loads, and in an outage the transfer switch flips the Smart panel to the Inverter critical load output, with the Smart panel automatically managing which loads can be used to prevent overloading the inverter.

But as it stands, the biggest feature of the Smart panel is basically not usable on a regular Hybrid inverter setup.
Too bad....

It's definitely not for your typical house based on what I saw and learned at a show. Company told me it's mostly used in solar/home battery projects and it requires integration with the home battery (only Tesla and LG supported so far?). They claim to be working on supporting other systems but no firm info. It's pretty big but has little internal space for wiring so that's consistent with the installation complaints I have heard. It requires WiFi to provide any meaningful visibility and control. So, if you don't have backup power for your home WiFi and the panel then it's kinda of useless in blackouts. It's got a nice app for you to show off how much power your TV is using to your friends but is it worth $3500?

[J.P.M.]

You do realize that one of the few areas America has excelled over the last 2-3 decades is technology. Older less tech savvy folks often struggle adapting to new technology. I see it with my father who incidentally was a very senior engineer for 45+ years. Although he would definitely see the benefits of Smart panels and technology in general he has problems navigating new technology.

There is massive value to a monitoring system capturing 1.8 million data points a day whether you're a novice or a highly qualified electrical engineer.

The value you write of may exist but my point is that such information is of little useful worth to those too ignorant to understand and differentiate what's important and what's not.

You have the last word.

[scrambler]

Emporia is definitely competitively priced. Have you integrated into your solar?

I have,
The only limitation today for hybrid system with a battery, is that the Software does not do bidirectional reporting on the 50A CTs. So when the current flows In the Inverter toi charge the battery of provide power to a critical load panel, it is reported as when the inverter sends current i to the grid.

This mean I have to massage the data a bit in Excel to get accurate reporting.

From what they said, the CTs themselves are bidirectional, and the Software needs to be updated. but it has been a year and I am still waiting.

The 200A CTs on the line to the Grid are reporting bidirectionally, so that part is good.

I have a writeup below
Great and inexpensive monitoring system and a problem to solve. - Solar Panels - Solar Panels Forum (solarpaneltalk.com)