Why "critical load panel only" when grid is down?

[ButchDeal]

So who would want a system that only provides lights and a few outlets for a few hours?

define a few hours! mine keeps lights on for days. allows us to flush in the bathroom, wash dishes, brush teeth, etc. We have no water without power.
We can work form home when power is out (both my and my wife's offices have been without power but we were able to continue working).
keeps our fridge and freezer working. come home during random short power outage and garage door still works.

We have maintained power for over 5 days during the longest outage so far with battery and solar. Yes solar was required and if the modules were under snow I would have had to clear them, the were not this time. It is also possible that we could have an outage for several days where the weather remains bad the entire time (pretty rare in this area), in in such we would have to limit our use but would still get some power even in cloudy days from solar.
The funny thing is that I have lived for 12 years in the same house with the same outages and suffered through the outages using by travel trailer battery and inverter with candels and no water before.

My bymodal system gives me a better tool to handle that and the rest of the time the batteries sit there gathering dust but the inverter and modules generate electricity, reducing my bill and creating SRECs, to pay for itself.....

Yes a generator and a grid tie inverter could do the same thing but then I would have to maintain the generator, buy fuel for it, etc. and in my case it would have cost the same (self install).

[Sunking]

If it is free it's for me.

So who bought your batteries for you?

[SunEagle]

So who would want a system that only provides lights and a few outlets for a few hours?

If it is free it's for me.

[Sunking]

Sunking He was under the impression (from comments) that the inverter would not work at all without the generator.
It will, flat out, no debate.

your argument is, will it handle a long outage, totally different than "will it work"

So who would want a system that only provides lights and a few outlets for a few hours?

[kingofbanff]

Sunking He was under the impression (from comments) that the inverter would not work at all without the generator.
It will, flat out, no debate.

your argument is, will it handle a long outage, totally different than "will it work"

Thanks ButchDeal This is the answer I was looking for. If a generator was mandatory for the inverter to work and Outback wasn't telling me that it would speak to the honesty of the company and I wouldn't deal with them. I was skeptical that was the case because the reviews would be so bad the company wouldn't be in existence for long.

[ButchDeal]

Strongly disagree. If the goal is to only cover a short outage, OK to keep a few lights on and TV. But for any extended outage and user wants want some loads like heater fans, refrigerator, freezer, coffee pot, and a microwave so they can heat food is going to need a generator. Works like a hybrid car. The batteries are sized to only last a few short hours. When discharged, the generator is needed to recharge the battery and run the loads at the same time. When batteries are charged, generator shuts down and cycle repeats itself until power is restored.

Sunking He was under the impression (from comments) that the inverter would not work at all without the generator.
It will, flat out, no debate.

your argument is, will it handle a long outage, totally different than "will it work"

[Sunking]

NO
You don't need a generator for the Radian or any other outback inverter to work. What he is saying is that to live off grid indeffinitly you would need a generator. In your case the grid will sufice. They are referring to living off grid mostly because of your want to run everything in the house during an outage.

Strongly disagree. If the goal is to only cover a short outage, OK to keep a few lights on and TV. But for any extended outage and user wants want some loads like heater fans, refrigerator, freezer, coffee pot, and a microwave so they can heat food is going to need a generator. Works like a hybrid car. The batteries are sized to only last a few short hours. When discharged, the generator is needed to recharge the battery and run the loads at the same time. When batteries are charged, generator shuts down and cycle repeats itself until power is restored.

[gmanInPA]

ButchDeal
I understand there is no way I can run all my loads but I'd rather choose what I want to run at any particular time after the grid goes down rather than before I build out my critical load panel. So for example I envision marking all my non critical loads at the breakers in the main panel and when the grid goes down flip them all off. After they are off I close the switch at "2" so the main panel is now live (but "1" is open so no power is going back to the grid to zap workers). I can then selectively turn breakers on if I need power at a certain place for some amount of time. [ATTACH]n306809[/ATTACH]

kingofbanff I would humbly ask... why do solar if you're not sure beforehand what your critical loads are? That might be the cart before the horse. Admittedly, I know much less than most people here... however, in my opinion and experience, one of the best favors you can do yourself before you ever by any solar components, is to move your critical loads to their own panel. Next, add some form of measuring/monitoring to that panel to find out 1) you continuous consumption 2) your peak consumption. Second, go get a proper generator that supports what you actually need for those critical loads - using the data you now have vs guessing. You might get a generator that is bigger if you want to use it for the whole house. You may find after all that monitoring and small investment that you don't have need of a 13kW system. You'll also be able to properly size your generator. You can send me a check for saving you a few grand when you do

An electrician or experienced DIYer can fairly easily setup your generator's output with a DPDT (you MUST have switched neutral) to direct your generator output either to an inverter's generator AC input, or your main panel (you'd need a generator interlock if your locale allows such or something the GUARANTEES that backfeeding grid power is not possible).

This would allow you to run anything you wanted in a power outage (assuming a large-enough generator) - not just your critical loads. This assume yours inverter is on a branch circuit off of your main panel - not before it. No matter how the above DPDT switch is in use, the inverter will receive power, thus your critical loads remain powered.

[ButchDeal]

Sunking Are you saying I have to have a generator for the Radian to work? Hmmmm, Outback hasn't mentioned that...

NO
You don't need a generator for the Radian or any other outback inverter to work. What he is saying is that to live off grid indeffinitly you would need a generator. In your case the grid will sufice. They are refering to living off grid mostly because of your want to run everything in the house during an outage.

[jflorey2]

Are you saying I have to have a generator for the Radian to work? Hmmmm, Outback hasn't mentioned that...

You don't need one as long as the grid is always there, or as long as your outages are short. But if you want to deal with long outages a generator is pretty much a requirement to keep from killing the batteries rapidly. (Note that even dedicated off-grid systems, designed for autonomy, have generators.)

[Mike90250]

Sunking Are you saying I have to have a generator for the Radian to work? Hmmmm, Outback hasn't mentioned that...

2 reasons for a generator.
reason 1) Big storm, grid down, system switches to battery overnight, in the morning, batteries are nearly flat. and you need to heat the house via furnace. Storm means no sun for the solar, so your inverter is shutting down from low battery. MUST have a generator large enough to run Loads and Charge batteries simultaneously.
reason 2) When batteries sit low over 24 hours, they start to sulfate and that is irreversible damage to them, A generator saves your expensive battery bank.

Sizing the generator.
Wattage for loads + wattage for battery charging should come to about 60 or 70% of the rated Continuous Running load, not the misleading 5 second PEAK load.

[Sunking]

Sunking Are you saying I have to have a generator for the Radian to work? Hmmmm, Outback hasn't mentioned that...

Why would they want to announce that? That would likely run customers off if they knew they needed a generator. That is when the customer has an Aha moment they should use a much less expensive conventional grid tied inverter and a pad mounted generator to run everything in their home instead of suffering with minimal power and extremely expensive battery replacement every few years.

[inetdog]

Sunking Are you saying I have to have a generator for the Radian to work? Hmmmm, Outback hasn't mentioned that...

You need it for when your batteries get run down during an extended outage as well as to power loads that are too large for your inverter. '
The Radian will work without a generator, but the system will not be the comprehensive backup you want and need.

[DaveDE2]

kingofbanff How often does your grid power go out? Is it worth worrying about? Geez, the last time that happened here I think I fell off my dinosaur. If and when it does, good time to go for a run or take the dog for a walk till it comes back up.

[kingofbanff]

Here is the kicker, a battery hybrid system requires a generator connected to AC2 port.

Sunking Are you saying I have to have a generator for the Radian to work? Hmmmm, Outback hasn't mentioned that...