Ferrite Choke questions

[fresnoboy]

The meter is causing the interference and interrupting the SolarEdge inverter as well as flickering lights etc. It sounds like the meter is quite faulty if it is so bad it flickers lights though.

Thanks for correcting me. That's pretty darn weird - I reversed what the OP had being trying to flag!

thx
mike

[ButchDeal]

What kind of smart meter is it? Most of the ones out here are Silver Spring units that communicate over 900 MHz spectrum. It would be hard to believe that the Solaredge inverters are causing that kind of interference, but they are pretty bad from an RFI POV so maybe so.

The meter is causing the interference and interrupting the SolarEdge inverter as well as flickering lights etc. It sounds like the meter is quite faulty if it is so bad it flickers lights though.

[fresnoboy]

What kind of smart meter is it? Most of the ones out here are Silver Spring units that communicate over 900 MHz spectrum. It would be hard to believe that the Solaredge inverters are causing that kind of interference, but they are pretty bad from an RFI POV so maybe so.

Part 15b compliance doesn't give you the right to create harmful interference, but if it's your own inverters you are responsible for fixing it. I talked to the FCC recently about the topic, and this FCC seems to be willing to be more aggressive about stopping harmful interference from inverter companies, including laying down significant fines on installers, etc...

Thx
mike

[max2k]

I think I read that the comms is at 63KHz. The meter manufacturer was being very responsive (I got forwarded the emails between them and POCO) so I imagine they understand that their meter cannot be allowed to cause interference. I did google for "PLC filter" and saw one product, which was a boxed filter (not a small choke) that you had to put in series with your load-side feed. No price, but I'm guessing several hundred $$$ or more.

If there was a simple cheap fix, I would think the meter manufacturer would just say so.

I'll let them (Aclara and SolarEdge) try to work this out for a little while, but if they can't figure out it then I will insist they replace with either a cellular comms module, ethernet, or basically anything else. If I get pushback, then I'll go the FCC route.

according to patent link you sited before it's in 30-90 bits/s range, very low frequency / data rate. The issue here as I see it these comms 'leak' to the load side of the meter interfering with your equipment. If the meter kept this on the line side it wouldn't be such a problem. I don't see an easy way to filter them out at those low frequencies.

[idnominal]

I think I read that the comms is at 63KHz. The meter manufacturer was being very responsive (I got forwarded the emails between them and POCO) so I imagine they understand that their meter cannot be allowed to cause interference. I did google for "PLC filter" and saw one product, which was a boxed filter (not a small choke) that you had to put in series with your load-side feed. No price, but I'm guessing several hundred $$$ or more.

If there was a simple cheap fix, I would think the meter manufacturer would just say so.

I'll let them (Aclara and SolarEdge) try to work this out for a little while, but if they can't figure out it then I will insist they replace with either a cellular comms module, ethernet, or basically anything else. If I get pushback, then I'll go the FCC route.

That looks like a particularly nasty form of PLC. Do your lights flicker because of the voltage change from the meter PLC, or because you have smart lights, where the dimmer or light controller reacts to the power company smart meter PLC? Do you neighbors have the same meter, and similar flickering of their lights?

[NukeEngineer]

I think I read that the comms is at 63KHz. The meter manufacturer was being very responsive (I got forwarded the emails between them and POCO) so I imagine they understand that their meter cannot be allowed to cause interference. I did google for "PLC filter" and saw one product, which was a boxed filter (not a small choke) that you had to put in series with your load-side feed. No price, but I'm guessing several hundred $$$ or more.

If there was a simple cheap fix, I would think the meter manufacturer would just say so.

I'll let them (Aclara and SolarEdge) try to work this out for a little while, but if they can't figure out it then I will insist they replace with either a cellular comms module, ethernet, or basically anything else. If I get pushback, then I'll go the FCC route.

[bcroe]

No need, I linked a video to youtube with a scope showing the signal. Also, here's the patent on the communications method.

http://www.google.la/patents/US9294147

It's a Part 15 device, so if Alcara and SolarEdge can't get a filter algorithm for it, I can have it removed due to the interference it's causing.

The link pics aren't coming through on my Apple. But if the modulation is on the order of the line
frequency, you can forget about beads helping. Apparently the distortion on the basic 60HZ is
being seen as a fault. Equipment exists to help, but at the operating power level could be quite
costly. Maybe removing the generator is the best solution, if you can't turn off the detector in
the inverter. Bruce Roe

[NukeEngineer]

Enough talk already. If its affecting your lights, it shouldn't be too hard to see the
nature of it on a scope. That in turn could lead directly to a fix. Bruce Roe

No need, I linked a video to youtube with a scope showing the signal. Also, here's the patent on the communications method.

http://www.google.la/patents/US9294147

It's a Part 15 device, so if Alcara and SolarEdge can't get a filter algorithm for it, I can have it removed due to the interference it's causing.

[bcroe]

Enough talk already. If its affecting your lights, it shouldn't be too hard to see the
nature of it on a scope. That in turn could lead directly to a fix. Bruce Roe

[jflorey2]

If the meter can broadcast enough power on the AC line to make lights flicker, that's just awesome !!

Well, if they are really shorting out the AC line with a triac, that would do it.

[Mike90250]

If the meter can broadcast enough power on the AC line to make lights flicker, that's just awesome !!

[NukeEngineer]

Yea, its not using BPL, its PLC. The meter manufacturer and SolarEdge are now collaborating on a fix. The meter manufacturer gave Enphase a filter algorithm for this exact issue, so SolarEdge will need to do so as well.

[sdold]

According to that ARRL document, smart meter power line communication is rare or nonexistent in the U.S., so that wouldn't be on my short list of problems to fix. Have you actually measured a communications signal on the power line at the meter?

[NukeEngineer]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2D9DEltOZM is a video of the AC line with these comms. And, yep, my lights flicker when the meter is talking.

[NukeEngineer]

It seems that PLC operates under Part 15, so if they can't make the meter not interfere with my inverters' operation, then I can have them remove it...