Solar Purchase vs Lease - Newbie

[Mike90250]

ask both installers for references, and go visit their installs.

also ask about roof leaks, who covers that and for how long. 5 years would be reasonable.

When is your roof due for replacement ? less than 10 years, you may elect to do it now, before the PV, and not worry for 30 years. Maybe you can get the roofer and PV to work together to put good flashing on the mounts.

[csriram45]

OK. I see its about new design with higher potential vs proven track record.

I got a revised quote from another private installer.

Total System Size 3.290 kW DC Power (STC) / 2.821 kW AC Power (CEC)
Estimated Annual Production 4,789 kWh
PV Panel Description 14 x ET Solar Industry, Ltd. Model: ET-P660235B
Inverters Qty. 14 - Enphase Energy Model: M190-72-240-S02


Gross System Cost $17,000 ($5.17/watt DC, $6.03/watt AC)
CA Expected Perf-Based Buydown (EPBB) Step 8 ($987)
Installer Contract Cost $16,013 ($4.87/watt DC, $5.68/watt AC)
Federal Tax Credit/Tax Impact ($4,804)
Net Cost (year of installation) $11,209 ($3.41/watt DC, $3.97/watt AC)

I seem to have narrowed down to these 2 proposal

What do you guys have to say about this proposal compared to the Schuco proposal below? Both of them are about the same price. Question now would be which is a better panel and set up. One with ET Panel and microinverter and another with Schuco panel with SB inverter. If I knew who does a better job of installing etc. I would have gone with them but I have no idea who does it better.

System Size: 3.29 STC KW PV System
14 Schuco 235 MPE PSO4
1-SB4000US Inverter and integrated AC/DC Disconnect
SUBTOTAL (Labor & Tax included) $ 22,128.94
CEC Incentive $977.00
Installer discount - 24% (more a random #)
TOTAL $16,100.00
Federal Tax Incentive $4,830.00
CUSTOMER EXPECTED COST $ 11,270.00

[Mike90250]

new fangled microinverters

[Naptown]

Mike and others here do not like micro's
I happen to like them for a number of reasons
1- MPPT tracking on a per module basis as opposed to an entire string.
2- Lower DC wiring losses.
3- In many cases depending on jurisdiction can be a lower install cost even though the inverters themselves are more.
4- Per module monitoring will show problems much faster than the whole system monitoring will and will point the way to where the problem is.
5- Can be added on to easily each parallel string can have 15-20 modules on it
If there are less than that adding on is plug and play.
6- These are somewhat safer in the event of a fire as there will not be live 300-600 volts dc on the roof voltage will be limited to one module open circuit voltage.

Microinverters have been around since the late 70's however the early designs proved to have a poor lifespan and track record and were not produced for a long time. The current generation I strongly believe are much better engineered than the first generation.

There is truth to the statement that they will harvest more electricity than a string inverter. Just eliminating the module mismatch, differences in power tolerance and soiling differences on the modules will generate a greater harvest.

[csriram45]

Microinverter: fairly new, in the field about 2 years, and claims for a 15 or 20 year lifetime

Single large inverter: around for 20+ years, repairable, easily replaceable, and about a 10 year lifetime.

So in ten years, I would expect to repair / replace 1 large inverter, that weighs about 90 lb. Or I'd be expecting to have to get on the roof, and change out 3 or 4 of the microinverters, if the vendor is still around.

If I don't have shade issues to solve with microinverters, I would not use them.

What about the advantages of microinverter that you can get individual monitoring of panels so even if one is producing less or has become the others continue to produce. Also if I want to add panels in future I am told it's easy to do so etc.

I realize both have advantages and disadvantages. So you are suggesting that the advantages of microinverter do not outweigh those of single inverter?

[Naptown]

full manufacturer's name and model number for an opinion.
The Schuco's are made by Canadian Solar and private labeled.
Mono's use Sharp cells and assembled by CS
Poly's are pure CS
Don't know anything about the thin films.
Canadian solar and thus the Schuco have the highest PTC ratings of anyone as a ratio of STC to PTC higher PTC = More calif rebate
Their power tolerance is -0% this will help with output.
Not sure who makes to Schuco 03 series this seems to be a new module and made in USA
The phono's are +/- 3%

[Mike90250]

Microinverter: fairly new, in the field about 2 years, and claims for a 15 or 20 year lifetime

Single large inverter: around for 20+ years, repairable, easily replaceable, and about a 10 year lifetime.

So in ten years, I would expect to repair / replace 1 large inverter, that weighs about 90 lb. Or I'd be expecting to have to get on the roof, and change out 3 or 4 of the microinverters, if the vendor is still around.

If I don't have shade issues to solve with microinverters, I would not use them.

[csriram45]

If there are n shade issues, there is no reason to use the more expensive micro inverters.

The quote provided were almost same with the microinverters. I asked about how much saving I would have if I used a single inverter and it was about $500. So I guess if cost was same then better to go with microinverter?

[Mike90250]

If there are n shade issues, there is no reason to use the more expensive micro inverters.

[csriram45]

Phono 240W Panels

How are Phono 240w panels compared to the ET 235w and Schuco 235w. I am getting these panels for $2/watt and I an trying to decide on which of the three panels to go for.

Also, I can either go with Enphase microinverters or a SunnyBoy 4000. My roof does not get any shade but if I am getting 2 almost identical quotes one with microinverters and the other with SunnyBoy which one would you guys suggest?

Thx

[Naptown]

Enphase is not an attached inverter they mount independently to the racking and sit below the module.

[Mike90250]

14 panels and 14 separate microinverters? I thought you could only buy that brand pre-attached to panels.

Enphase is not an attached inverter they mount independently to the racking and sit below the module.

oh !

[csriram45]

Another Quote

Gross System Cost $17,710 ($5.50/watt DC, $6.42/watt AC)
CA Expected Perf-Based Buydown (EPBB)
Step 8
($966)
Installer Contract Cost $16,744 ($5.20/watt DC, $6.07/watt AC)
Federal Tax Credit/Tax Impact ($5,023)
Net Cost (year of installation) $11,721 ($3.64/watt DC, $4.25/watt AC)
System Description
Total System Size 3.220 kW DC Power (STC) / 2.760 kW AC Power (CEC)
Estimated Annual Production 4,687 kWh
PV Panel Description 14 x ET Solar Industry, Ltd. Model: ET-P660230B
Inverters Qty. 14 - Enphase Energy Model: M190-72-240-S02

Here is another quote I recd for install. How good is ET Solar over other panels in this quote? What do you thin about this quote?

[Naptown]

I was under the same impression that the third quote seemed the best. The only draw back I see is that he is a private guy so if tomorrow i have an issue how do I go about addressing it.

The other just seem more expensive. Basically all they are trying to shave of my Tier 3 and Tier 4 rates at PGE which I need to do the Math to see how that makes sense.

All will evaporate in 5 years except the lease which will continue till you die and no longer care. The leases are sold to investors who will not warrant any issues but will continue to collect the rent. My 2 cents

[csriram45]

I was under the same impression that the third quote seemed the best. The only draw back I see is that he is a private guy so if tomorrow i have an issue how do I go about addressing it.

The other just seem more expensive. Basically all they are trying to shave of my Tier 3 and Tier 4 rates at PGE which I need to do the Math to see how that makes sense.