SunPower with SolarEdge or SMA - OR - SolarEdge with Other Panel ???

[granders51]

System quote

I recently installed both on my commercial bldg. and home over 200 Sunpower X20-327 panels with Solaredge optimizers and Solar Edge inverters.

Could not be any happier with the system.

PM for my installer contact if you need help.

My home system is 38 panels X20-327 with SM6000A inverters (2 of them).

YTD my system has made 3,000KWH excess and I have had a $0.00 bill down from $550 avg.

Very happy to say the least.

TM

[Ian S]

Wow, that's quite impressive. Many thanks for the amount of detail in your post, and for opening my eyes to looking elsewhere besides SunPower.

I just received the following quotes from one of the most reputable installers here in So Cal:

Option A: SolarEdge 7600 Inverter, P400 Optimizers, 25 year warranty on the Inverter, Wi-Fi monitoring, with 24 SunPower 327 watt panels for $36,000. That's a 7.85kWh system, for $4.58/watt.

Option B: Same inverter setup (w/P300 Optimizers) with 26 LG300 panels (7.8kWh system) for $26,500 (that's $3.39/watt)

Option C: Same inverter setup (w/P300 Optimizers) with 28 LG300 panels (8.4kWh system) for $28,420 (that's $3.38/watt)

In addition, this is from one of the most reputable installers here in So Cal. Thoughts?

As someone with Sunpower on their roof and happy with it so far, I'd still say it's far too much of a premium to pay over the LG panels.

[gsxrmike]

1.) Sunpower has a lower year to year output deterioration of 0.4%/year. Other quality panels have something like 0.7%/yr. However, depending on the assumptions your cost analysis makes about things like future energy inflation, how long you plan to stay where you are, your use patterns, etc., etc., most, all, or more of the advantage of lower performance deterioration is usually chewed up by what is commonly a 15% - 25% up front premium for the Sunpower equipment.

FWIW, using what I think are reasonable and hopefully realistic assumptions about the future and a 25 year time frame, for my money, S.P. is worth about a 5% or so up front premium, much less if you plan on moving/dying/equipment obsolescence before 25 years is up. Your #'s will vary.

2.) The Sunpower warranty may be better than some. However, I'm not sure I'd call it bumper to bumper. Also, it's part of the Sunpower premium, so it ain't free. BTW: If the panels are built like a tank, why do they need such a great warranty ? Read it and decide for yourself. This may be more anecdotal than provable, but it seems that, like other types of electronic appliances, if panels fail they do so relatively soon after install, and so far relatively few panels of most any mfr., Sunpower or anyone else's product have failed. More anecdotal stuff: In my HOA after about 7 years and about 55 residential installs, no panel failures to report, S.P., or anyone else's. Pay your money, take your choice. There is such a thing as being insurance poor.

One other point: While I'm not a fan of leases, I do not think lease peddlers are stupid business people. So, I take a lesson from those folks, or a page from their playbook and assume and note that Solarcity, Sunrun and others use non Sunpower equipment. Could part of the reason for using non Sunpower equipment be that those knowledgeable business people, who, BTW, are responsible for maintenance of their systems, have figured out that S.P. is not the most cost effective panel ? I'd guess (perhaps ignorantly and incorrectly) that S.P. would salivate at a chance to sell product to those outfits if only for the large volume of product involved.

FWIW, Sunpower leases in my HOA are more/Watt than leases using non S.P. equipment. Annual output per installed kW seems about the same when adjusted for orientation pretty much regardless of whose panel is used.

Sunpower has a very good product for which they extract, in the opinion of some, a very high price. In the final analysis, it's still an appliance, not a lifestyle. Mercedes and Ford are both fit for purpose as vehicles. One comes with bragging rights and a higher price tag.

Sunpower also has advertising that is as good as their product in the respect of being good at innuendo and implication, and IMO, relies on the solar ignorance of their potential customers to sell product. Make no mistake, others do that as well, S.P. is just a bit slicker about it. That it is so slick may be some of the reason posters often show up here looking for an after the fact confirmation of a decision to buy S.P. and get rancorous when other, non slick opinions found here and elsewhere conflict with the preconceived notions.

Bottom line : IMO, unless you're cramped for space, you can get very similar performance for a lower long term cost per kWh with non Sunpower equipment from known manufacturers installed by reputable, established vendors.

But, it's a free country, so pay your money, take your choice.

As for other panels: I'd stick w/ a known brand backed by a co. w/ a reputation and deep pockets. I'd tend to avoid no name and knock off stuff. As or more important is to get a good vendor who's been an electrical contractor with a good reputation for many years. That's real cheap and real good insurance.

Wow, that's quite impressive. Many thanks for the amount of detail in your post, and for opening my eyes to looking elsewhere besides SunPower.

I just received the following quotes from one of the most reputable installers here in So Cal:

Option A: SolarEdge 7600 Inverter, P400 Optimizers, 25 year warranty on the Inverter, Wi-Fi monitoring, with 24 SunPower 327 watt panels for $36,000. That's a 7.85kWh system, for $4.58/watt.

Option B: Same inverter setup (w/P300 Optimizers) with 26 LG300 panels (7.8kWh system) for $26,500 (that's $3.39/watt)

Option C: Same inverter setup (w/P300 Optimizers) with 28 LG300 panels (8.4kWh system) for $28,420 (that's $3.38/watt)

In addition, this is from one of the most reputable installers here in So Cal. Thoughts?

[J.P.M.]

Ok, but I thought they were also more efficient over the long run than the competition, and the only panel that has a TRUE 25 year "Bumper to Bumper" warranty.

What are some panel manufacturers that you'd recommend?

1.) Sunpower has a lower year to year output deterioration of 0.4%/year. Other quality panels have something like 0.7%/yr. However, depending on the assumptions your cost analysis makes about things like future energy inflation, how long you plan to stay where you are, your use patterns, etc., etc., most, all, or more of the advantage of lower performance deterioration is usually chewed up by what is commonly a 15% - 25% up front premium for the Sunpower equipment.

FWIW, using what I think are reasonable and hopefully realistic assumptions about the future and a 25 year time frame, for my money, S.P. is worth about a 5% or so up front premium, much less if you plan on moving/dying/equipment obsolescence before 25 years is up. Your #'s will vary.

2.) The Sunpower warranty may be better than some. However, I'm not sure I'd call it bumper to bumper. Also, it's part of the Sunpower premium, so it ain't free. BTW: If the panels are built like a tank, why do they need such a great warranty ? Read it and decide for yourself. This may be more anecdotal than provable, but it seems that, like other types of electronic appliances, if panels fail they do so relatively soon after install, and so far relatively few panels of most any mfr., Sunpower or anyone else's product have failed. More anecdotal stuff: In my HOA after about 7 years and about 55 residential installs, no panel failures to report, S.P., or anyone else's. Pay your money, take your choice. There is such a thing as being insurance poor.

One other point: While I'm not a fan of leases, I do not think lease peddlers are stupid business people. So, I take a lesson from those folks, or a page from their playbook and assume and note that Solarcity, Sunrun and others use non Sunpower equipment. Could part of the reason for using non Sunpower equipment be that those knowledgeable business people, who, BTW, are responsible for maintenance of their systems, have figured out that S.P. is not the most cost effective panel ? I'd guess (perhaps ignorantly and incorrectly) that S.P. would salivate at a chance to sell product to those outfits if only for the large volume of product involved.

FWIW, Sunpower leases in my HOA are more/Watt than leases using non S.P. equipment. Annual output per installed kW seems about the same when adjusted for orientation pretty much regardless of whose panel is used.

Sunpower has a very good product for which they extract, in the opinion of some, a very high price. In the final analysis, it's still an appliance, not a lifestyle. Mercedes and Ford are both fit for purpose as vehicles. One comes with bragging rights and a higher price tag.

Sunpower also has advertising that is as good as their product in the respect of being good at innuendo and implication, and IMO, relies on the solar ignorance of their potential customers to sell product. Make no mistake, others do that as well, S.P. is just a bit slicker about it. That it is so slick may be some of the reason posters often show up here looking for an after the fact confirmation of a decision to buy S.P. and get rancorous when other, non slick opinions found here and elsewhere conflict with the preconceived notions.

Bottom line : IMO, unless you're cramped for space, you can get very similar performance for a lower long term cost per kWh with non Sunpower equipment from known manufacturers installed by reputable, established vendors.

But, it's a free country, so pay your money, take your choice.

As for other panels: I'd stick w/ a known brand backed by a co. w/ a reputation and deep pockets. I'd tend to avoid no name and knock off stuff. As or more important is to get a good vendor who's been an electrical contractor with a good reputation for many years. That's real cheap and real good insurance.

[gsxrmike]

If you have a large roof & no space issues you're paying extra for Sunpower for no reason. They have higher efficiency PER SQUARE FOOT, but not per system.

Ok, but I thought they were also more efficient over the long run than the competition, and the only panel that has a TRUE 25 year "Bumper to Bumper" warranty.

What are some panel manufacturers that you'd recommend?

[Bikerscum]

If you have a large roof & no space issues you're paying extra for Sunpower for no reason. They have higher efficiency PER SQUARE FOOT, but not per system.

[gsxrmike]

So, I've been getting quotes in recently and hearing all the different marketing aspects of SunPower, SolarEdge, SMA, etc., and could really use some suggestions from you experts. I've been asking for a SolarEdge and SunPower combo, which a couple installers said they can do (waiting on quotes), but here's what I've been offered so far (minus the specific panel count, kwh, etc.):

A) SolarEdge Inverter with P400 Optimizer and SunPower 327 watt panels

B) SolarEdge Inverter with P300 or P400 Optimizer with Suniva, Hyundai, LG panels

C) SunPower 327 watt panels with SMA String Inverter

I really like the SolarEdge technology, as it doesn't shut down the entire string if one panel fails, doesn't have the overheating issues like enphase, will allow me to monitor each panels performance, etc.

I really like the SunPower panel guarantee, as they're simply the best panel on the market (from what I've read).

I really don't want a central/string inverter, as I want to monitor my panel performance and have the majority of my system stay running if one panel goes out.

For what it's worth, my house points DIRECTLY south. Single story, long/wide roof, cement tile, in Menifee (Riverside county). There are ZERO shade issues (besides my chimney in the southwest corner, which is standard size).

Suggestions please