#6 grounding wire grounding rod?

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  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by inetdog
    I would not consider a bus bar to be an irreversible splice, so it all seems to come down to where the GEC is being terminated.
    Perhaps a text book definition from the NEC is needed because the definition has changed.

    Grounding Electrode Conductor. A conductor used to
    connect the system grounded conductor or the equipment to
    a grounding electrode or to a point on the grounding electrode
    system.

    Note there are two objects being referenced:

    System ground conductor aka grounding circuit conductor (neutral), or equipment. What this means is there can be more than ONE GEC. The System Grounded Conductor as you know can only be bonded once and only once. Equipment can be grounded as much as you like. But here is your real answer about bus bars.

    250.64 Grounding Electrode Conductor Installation.
    Grounding electrode conductors at the service, at each
    building or structure where supplied by a feeder(s) or
    branch circuit(s), or at a separately derived system shall be
    installed as specified in 250.64(A) through (F).

    (C) Continuous. Grounding electrode conductor(s) shall
    be installed in one continuous length without a splice or
    joint except as permitted in (1) and (2):

    (1) Splicing shall be permitted only by irreversible
    compression-type connectors listed as grounding and
    bonding equipment or by the exothermic welding process.

    (2) Sections of busbars shall be permitted to be connected
    together to form a grounding electrode conductor.

    (D) Service with Multiple Disconnecting Means Enclosures.
    Where a service consists of more than a single enclosure
    as permitted in 230.71(A), grounding electrode
    connections shall be made in accordance with (D)(1),
    (D)(2), or (D)(3).

    (1) Grounding Electrode Conductor Taps. Where the
    service is installed as permitted by 230.40, Exception No.
    2, a common grounding electrode conductor and grounding
    electrode conductor taps shall be installed. The common
    grounding electrode conductor shall be sized in accordance
    with 250.66, based on the sum of the circular mil area of
    the largest ungrounded service-entrance conductor(s).
    Where the service-entrance conductors connect directly to a
    service drop or service lateral, the common grounding electrode
    conductor shall be sized in accordance with Table
    250.66, Note 1. A tap conductor shall extend to the inside
    of each service disconnecting means enclosure. The
    grounding electrode conductor taps shall be sized in accordance
    with 250.66 for the largest conductor serving the
    individual enclosure. The tap conductors shall be connected to
    the common grounding electrode conductor by exothermic
    welding or with connectors listed as grounding and bonding
    equipment in such a manner that the common grounding electrode
    conductor remains without a splice or joint.

    (2) Individual Grounding Electrode Conductors. A
    grounding electrode conductor shall be connected between
    the grounded conductor in each service equipment disconnecting
    means enclosure and the grounding electrode system.
    Each grounding electrode conductor shall be sized in accordance
    with 250.66 based on the service-entrance conductor(s)
    supplying the individual service disconnecting means.

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  • Naptown
    replied
    Originally posted by inetdog
    I would not consider a bus bar to be an irreversible splice, so it all seems to come down to where the GEC is being terminated. If it ends at the bus bar, then everything else connected to that bus bar would be an EGC instead, and you would not be splicing the GEC.

    If I had a ground electrode, with a single wire (GEC) which went through panel B, terminated at the ground bar in that panel and then another wire left that same ground bar and continued to the ground bar in Panel A which was the service equipment, I would not consider that to be compliant.
    I have had inspectors make me terminate the bond wire at the grounding bus in the panel and most require it to be spliced to the GEC between the bus bar and the ground point.

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  • inetdog
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunking
    Stated incorrectly. EGC can be spliced as many times as you want using twist locks or any other mechanical connector you want. GEC can be spliced if you use the approved methods. Using a bus bar is one correct way.
    I would not consider a bus bar to be an irreversible splice, so it all seems to come down to where the GEC is being terminated. If it ends at the bus bar, then everything else connected to that bus bar would be an EGC instead, and you would not be splicing the GEC.

    If I had a ground electrode, with a single wire (GEC) which went through panel B, terminated at the ground bar in that panel and then another wire left that same ground bar and continued to the ground bar in Panel A which was the service equipment, I would not consider that to be compliant.

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  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by inetdog
    EGCs do not need to be splice free, but GECs do, right?
    Stated incorrectly. EGC can be spliced as many times as you want using twist locks or any other mechanical connector you want. GEC can be spliced if you use the approved methods. Using a bus bar is one correct way.

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  • Naptown
    replied
    Originally posted by inetdog
    EGCs do not need to be splice free, but GECs do, right?
    correct

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  • inetdog
    replied
    Originally posted by unclebeer
    Running it to the buss bar would not be an irreversable splice you will need to crimp it to the ground wire in the service panel or near the grounding point.
    Land wire to the bus bar. You don't need to splice it. IF you splice it to a grounding conductor, THEN it needs to be an irreversable splice.
    EGCs do not need to be splice free, but GECs do, right?

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  • unclebeer
    replied
    Running it to the buss bar would not be an irreversable splice you will need to crimp it to the ground wire in the service panel or near the grounding point.
    Land wire to the bus bar. You don't need to splice it. IF you splice it to a grounding conductor, THEN it needs to be an irreversable splice.

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  • Bobodude
    replied
    Originally posted by Sunking
    That is best practice but you are steel required to bond all electrodes to form a common system. It would be extremely dangerous if you did not.
    I should have qualified my statement by including the fact my array is 75 ft from the inverter and the NEC provides for an alternate structure ground, not a negitive pv conductor grd. I also have a midnight lightening arrestor on the pv conductors located at the combiner box to help keep any surge from damaging the charge controller. I also installed two 8' ground rods, 6ft apart, at the main panel grounding the ground buss thru a short length of #2 cu. This is in addition to the standard Ufer in the foundation. Another Midnight lightening arrestor hung across the 220 buss at the main panel helps on the grid side. Before my solar install, lightening hits nearby have blown out two GFI bkrs and smoked my phone system. I am accutely aware of what mother nature can do.

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  • Sunking
    replied
    Originally posted by Bobodude
    I would Ground the array with a 8' grd rod below your combiner box for the shortest path to grd, not thru your house to the main panel.
    That is best practice but you are steel required to bond all electrodes to form a common system. It would be extremely dangerous if you did not.

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  • Bobodude
    replied
    Originally posted by Naptown
    take it up with the NFPA
    Ya mean those guys that stuff my mailbox with endless deals?

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  • russ
    replied
    Originally posted by Bobodude
    Wow, who in their right mind would want to route a lightening hit back thru their house into the main panel? Ground loop voltage could be huge. Does the grd wire go under the house or thru the attic? Your main panel grd is for only bonding the the inverter and the negitive pv cable to grd. I would Ground the array with a 8' grd rod below your combiner box for the shortest path to grd, not thru your house to the main panel.
    We only recommend sticking with the code requirements - the codes are there for a reason and established after considerable thought.

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  • Naptown
    replied
    Originally posted by Bobodude
    Wow, who in their right mind would want to route a lightening hit back thru their house into the main panel? Ground loop voltage could be huge. Does the grd wire go under the house or thru the attic? Your main panel grd is for only bonding the the inverter and the negitive pv cable to grd. I would Ground the array with a 8' grd rod below your combiner box for the shortest path to grd, not thru your house to the main panel.
    take it up with the NFPA

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  • Bobodude
    replied
    Wow, who in their right mind would want to route a lightening hit back thru their house into the main panel? Ground loop voltage could be huge. Does the grd wire go under the house or thru the attic? Your main panel grd is for only bonding the the inverter and the negitive pv cable to grd. I would Ground the array with a 8' grd rod below your combiner box for the shortest path to grd, not thru your house to the main panel.

    Leave a comment:


  • Naptown
    replied
    Running it to the buss bar would not be an irreversable splice you will need to crimp it to the ground wire in the service panel or near the grounding point.

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  • EZLighting
    replied
    Originally posted by Naptown
    This is an enphase installation. ECG must be carried back to the grounding buss.
    Bondng In this case would be 2 parallel strings of inverters, mounted remotely.
    DC source and output would be isolated Inverter output would be no more than 2 parallel circuits.
    Ground ault protection is integral with those inverters.
    Probably a judgement call by the AHJ.


    So run it back to the buss bar in my panel in my house?

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