Best PG&E rate plan for NorCal?

[Zee]

The inv. will not go over 250W, it's rating. It won't fry. Your panels will never generate 285. Never means 0.1% of the time. You will be happy when they exceed just 200 W.

[Jaxx]

Inverter: You can oversize Pv W to Inv W up to a ratio of 1.2. E.g. 3000W PV on a 2500 W inverter would be the max pv in that case. (ratio 1.2) Ie 250 W to 300W panels is OK on a 250W inverter.

I was more afraid of, what happens when the panel generates 285W in DC power, will the inverter only generate 250W of AC going to the grid. Or in my case, will the panels with my array orientation even ever generate 285W?

[Zee]

I wrote the following: "For very small users of power E-1 is better. You can reduce bill to 0." Yes, there is no min. charge or fee at all on E1, the flat rate.

Inverter: You can oversize Pv W to Inv W up to a ratio of 1.2. E.g. 3000W PV on a 2500 W inverter would be the max pv in that case. (ratio 1.2) Ie 250 W to 300W panels is OK on a 250W inverter.

[Jaxx]

My belief is that that 13 bucks a month if you go with rate E6 (TOU), will be charged no matter what, so TOU makes no sense for you.

Does that mean there is no meter charge or other BASIC fee for the E-1 plan (even without a PV system)?

Check your electric bill or post it here - something doesn't add up.

Bill says:

12/6/12-12/31/12:
Baseline Quantity 304kWh
Baseline usage 131.67 kWh @ 0.12845 = 16.91

1/1/13-01/05/13
Baseline Qty: 58.5 kWh
Baseline Usage 25.32 @ 0.13230 = 3.35

Rate Schedule E1 XB

Usage: 157 kWh

Do not be disappointed in 265 degrees orientation at 9 degree slope.
You may lose 11% in production relative to a due South install.

Speaking of production. This is going to be off topic, but with my array orientation, should I get 250 or 300W micro inverters for 285W panels? If the 285W panels will never provide 285W anyway because of how I mount them, I assume going with 300 W will not make much sense, correct?

[russ]

Check your electric bill or post it here - something doesn't add up.

[Zee]

Crazy is such a strong word. Just different!

We're all crazy a bit.

Anyways good to hear somebody who loves solar for what it is.

The sizing is up to you.

Do not be disappointed in 265 degrees orientation at 9 degree slope.
You may lose 11% in production relative to a due South install.

(BTW- The farther West or East you go, the flatter you want the panels. 9 degrees is preferable than steeper angles in your case! )

THis is all theoretical and applies to someone with large power needs.
You are not that person. You will overproduce.
My belief is that that 13 bucks a month if you go with rate E6 (TOU), will be charged no matter what, so TOU makes no sense for you.

[Jaxx]

If
1) your panels face S or SW or W

They face west (265 degree azimuth, 9 degree roof slope). Not ideal conditions, but it is what it is.

If
I am just confused now: you use 150 kwh a month and want to install 3 kw of PV????
12 months @ 150 kwh = 1800 KWH annually
3 kw @ 1400 kwh/kw in N CA = 4200 KWH annually.
Why?
I am suspecting you do not use 150kwh........

I like solar so much I just want a system

I wanted it to cover at least what we use, plus some extra. We do have an AC system but don't use it. I won't feel as bad using it with the pv system. Also, I got a good deal on a 3kW system and it will (hopefully) increase the sale price of the home when we sell it in a few years.

Still think I am crazy?

[Zee]

Hello,

I'd like to pick up this thread. I am in the process of installing a 3kW PV system and I am unsure which PG&E rate to chose (E-1 or E-6).

Our usage is low (in the range of 150 kWh/month).

Very low usage during the day on week days. Mostly usage in the evening.
On the weekends usage is slightly higher with more usage during the day and same usage in the evening.

Could you help me understand which rate would work better for us? I am expecting to generate more kWh's than we use. I am not sure how the higher rate for generated electricity during the day with TOU would work for us.

We are currently on E-1. I just saw that PG&Es website currently recommends to go with E-6 (that is without the PV system). Estimated cost per year with E-6 will be $170 vs $200.

Thanks

If
1) your panels face S or SW or W,
2) and your solar produces annually close to what you consume
3)and you do not have A/C, or a pool pump set to afternoon pumping, (or similar LARGE load in the summer afternoons)
then
E-6 is 99% likely to be much better.

You gotta stick with it for a year.

Pay attention to screen 05 on your new PGE meter. It will indicate NET usage during the expensive PEAK time.
1-7 PM M-F May - October.
Initials setting is 50,000 kwh. If that does not go down, you are using more than selling in PEAK and ........you are losing money on E-6.

Oh snap! I re-read your post: you only use 150 kwh a month!!! That is very very low. E-6 has a minimum 13 buck a month charge which is applied to almost all of that. In other words you can't go below that 13 bucks with the solar it is a fixed fee.
For very small users of power E-1 is better. You can reduce bill to 0.

I am just confused now: you use 150 kwh a month and want to install 3 kw of PV????
12 months @ 150 kwh = 1800 KWH annually
3 kw @ 1400 kwh/kw in N CA = 4200 KWH annually.
Why?
I am suspecting you do not use 150kwh........

[Jaxx]

Thank you inetdog for your comments.

I will probably go with E-6 even though there will be a $228 fee for reprogramming my smart meter. I hope that will pay off over time...

[inetdog]

Very low usage during the day on week days. Mostly usage in the evening. I am expecting to generate more kWh's than we use. I am not sure how the higher rate for generated electricity during the day with TOU would work for us.

It is tricky to predict the result without more detailed information, but if your usage is really 150 kWh/month (5 kWh/day) you are using very little for on-grid and should be congratulated. And yes, a nominal 3kw system will probably produce more than 5 kWh on most days even in winter. With little power use during the day, getting lots of credits at the peak or near peak rate will usually be your best bet.
But since you will not get anything back if you have a net production balance at the end of your one year cycle, it may not make a lot of difference.

For someone with heavy winter electric heating bills or other loads that will put you into a higher rate tier at least some of the time, the TOU system will usually pay you more for the electricity you net back to PG&E during the day, especially in summer, than you pay to get the power back at night. The effect of that will be that your summer production will build up a larger account balance to carry you through the winter than you would get with the E-1 rate.

[Jaxx]

Hello,

I'd like to pick up this thread. I am in the process of installing a 3kW PV system and I am unsure which PG&E rate to chose (E-1 or E-6).

Our usage is low (in the range of 150 kWh/month).

Very low usage during the day on week days. Mostly usage in the evening.
On the weekends usage is slightly higher with more usage during the day and same usage in the evening.

Could you help me understand which rate would work better for us? I am expecting to generate more kWh's than we use. I am not sure how the higher rate for generated electricity during the day with TOU would work for us.

We are currently on E-1. I just saw that PG&Es website currently recommends to go with E-6 (that is without the PV system). Estimated cost per year with E-6 will be $170 vs $200.

Thanks

[cebury]

This reminds me of the fiasco that started a couple years ago with the "water shortages" in Los Angeles, as everyone cut back water usage, the water department suddenly had less $ to pay the work crews, which still had to repair pipes. So, they upped the rates till everyone was paying the old amounts, for less water. Why would I expect the electric companies to do anything different ?

I agree Mike. Certainly the same thing with Solar PV installs happening/continuing: just "punish" the PV TOU-tiered rates extra, since a lot was THEIR fault anyway, reducing gross income to the POCO. At least for now, CA utils are allowing offset of dollars, not kwh, in the net-metering policy.


VRacer: Yes, the 5th tier was removed (it was ~.50 kwh) ie set the same rate as the 4th tier, and now the 4th tier is only .34 for everyone in PG&E under E1 residential rates. The billing method is a matrix calculation of Rates & Baseline however, so even though we all pay the same rate, those in higher-cost-to-cool areas (like hot areas of Fresno & Bakersfield) are allotted more daily Kwh for each tier than other cooler areas. Each area, aka baseline territory, gets a daily allotment and you can find info about that here: http://www.pge.com/myhome/customerse...ne/understand/

[Sunking]

Well Mike for 1 thing electricity use will never decline and demand will continually climb. Not once in the history of energy use have electric demand ever declined. That is why California is in such deep trouble. They quit building base load plants 20 years ago and today you import about 30% of your power vs a very small percentage 20 years ago.

[Mike90250]

reducing usage = increase in bills

This reminds me of the fiasco that started a couple years ago with the "water shortages" in Los Angeles, as everyone cut back water usage, the water department suddenly had less $ to pay the work crews, which still had to repair pipes. So, they upped the rates till everyone was paying the old amounts, for less water. Why would I expect the electric companies to do anything different ?

[vinniethePVtech]

Cebury,


In our area, PG&E charges $.33/kWh in the higher tiers. (Does anyone know if that is the standard residential rate for PG&E throughout it's area?) With our 3.3 kWh system, I'm trying to keep our net use in the lower tiers.

If your hitting the tier at .33per kw your burning an excess over 3kwh. A 3.3 kwh solar system will not help you significantly. My friend grows the green goods on a hydro system, that system alone burns up 4.2kwh. Just for the system, usage beyond that system is personal usage that averages 1.8kwh. That's 6kwh total and a monthly bill $680.

I would practice reducing the bills religiously before purchasing solar. If your bills are in the .33 tier that'd PG&E saying shame on you for being an energy hog.

This is just outside of Vallejo.