Problem with 600W grid tie inverter

[inetdog]

..speaking of which is there a thread here for electronic fallacies?

I have not seen one, but if you want to start one in the General Discussion forum, I would chip in.
If it gets good enough, it may get promoted by the mods to a different place and/or become a sticky.

seems optimizing one's aim at the south noon day sun is like raising the Q of a resonant circuit, in this case the daily 'wave' of the sun.. if you optimize for highest PO you waste your mornings and afternoons and need a bigger converter...screw all that, detune your solar array, add a few more panels and use the next smaller converter.

The sophisticated analysis these days tends in that direction, although unless you are trying to squeeze every watt without buying a larger inverter, it makes as much sense for most people with grid-tie to just point all their panels as south as possible.
The strategy was much different in the beginning when the cost of panels was the biggest part of the system be a long shot.

For off-grid, with battery charging and some daytime loads, it really does make sense to try to extend the number of useful hours once you have hit the maximum charging rate for your batteries. That kind of strategy particularly makes sense for extreme latitudes.
Before the price of panels dropped, it also paid to use a one or even two axis tracker to get the most from your expensive panels.

For grid-tie, there is no limit to the charge rate you can put into your "battery", so it is not as important to level the power production over the course of the day. Just go for the maximum total. The cost of an extra or a larger GTI is not all that great once you take into account the fixed costs in all of the permitting, inspection, etc., plus how to mount any panels you want to face east or west if all you have is a south roof.

But the analogy is useful.

[Sunking]

Speaking of threads, is there a thread for making your own converter in a safe way?

No sir. The Forum cannot condone such activities. That could get them in BIG TROUBLE.

[rainworm]

thread

Speaking of threads, is there a thread for making your own converter in a safe way?

[seataka]

Maybe 1000 watts peak, for as long as maybe a cycle or two? Generators have similar rating issues with peak and continuous power.
There are even reports of a wind turbine manufacturer stating that X power in a Y mph wind is a "peak" rating, because once you draw that much power the turbine slows down.

Well, not Mil generators, they tend to be massively underrated like the MEP-002A, and thanks for the tip re wind turbine "specs", makes sense and..

Heh, yeah, I started with an Edu-kit home study course when I was 11, It used tubes..a 35W4 rectifier, I stayed in electronics, frankly, because I was lazy, and it was easy. The solar power field seems to have its share of hype and gotchas...seems optimizing one's aim at the south noon day sun is like raising the Q of a resonant circuit, in this case the daily 'wave' of the sun.. if you optimize for highest PO you waste your mornings and afternoons and need a bigger converter...screw all that, detune your solar array, add a few more panels and use the next smaller converter. Most explanations I read are optimized to try to intimidate a buyer into calling a 'reputable dealer' - though I recognize BS when I see it, and this line should get a reaction from a bunch of experts.. the NEC is merely a substitute for being able to visualize a very few formulas like ohms law and a wire table..and making sure the dog doesnt chew on a wire..speaking of which is there a thread here for electronic fallacies?

[inetdog]

They work, some don't like too much power available to them and will intermittently shut down, but I have yet to figure out where they get the 600Watt rating idea. Seems a 600 W unit I tried current limits at 350 Watts, regardless of what is available from the panels, and a larger supposed "1000" Watt unit seems to current limit at 600 Watts being delivered to the AC line. Other than the ratings the devices seem pretty smart but then my Sunnyboy 3000 does exactly what it claims to do and a bit more.

Maybe 1000 watts peak, for as long as maybe a cycle or two? Generators have similar rating issues with peak and continuous power.
There are even reports of a wind turbine manufacturer stating that X power in a Y mph wind is a "peak" rating, because once you draw that much power the turbine slows down.

[seataka]

Some info on 600 W chinese inverter

They work, some don't like too much power available to them and will intermittently shut down, but I have yet to figure out where they get the 600Watt rating idea. Seems a 600 W unit I tried current limits at 350 Watts, regardless of what is available from the panels, and a larger supposed "1000" Watt unit seems to current limit at 600 Watts being delivered to the AC line. Other than the ratings the devices seem pretty smart but then my Sunnyboy 3000 does exactly what it claims to do and a bit more.

[sirsparky]

quick fix

An easy solution to your problem is to get rid of the 600 watt cheap Chinese Inverter and replace it with 3 Enphase micro-inverters (one for each panel).
Another option would be to find an old SMA Sunnyboy 700U, which is a 120 VAC output 700 watt inverter. They are no longer manufactured, but you might be able to find one for sale on the internet.
Good luck!!

[inetdog]

The regulations are designed to protect members of the EU against products that might endanger their safety, pose a pollution hazard to public safety, interfere with electromagnetic devices or create other detrimental effects."
The CE certification is only given to the original manufacture of a product.
TUV= technischer ueberwachungs verein .

The UL admittedly has an interest in promoting its own operation, but UL points out the following about CE certification.

Unlike the UL Mark, the CE Marking:

Is not a safety certification mark
Is generally based on self-declaration rather than third-party certification
Does not demonstrate compliance to North American safety standards or installation codes

The point which concerns me most is that the CE mark often is based on the manufacturer's own declaration that the product complies, with no auditing of the process by independent testing.
One recent example of this type of process is Boeing's declaration that the 787's lithium cobalt oxide battery would not melt down or smoke and would not release flammable products, and therefore met the standards set by the FAA. All of the testing was both designed and conducted done by Boeing.
Think what might happen when a less diligent manufacturer self-certifies.

[Johann]

Some European certifications refer to standards with testing done by independent laboratories, like TUV in Germany. Others are "self-certifications" where the manufacturer states that the equipment was built in compliance with the referenced standard. These self-certifications, particularly from non-European manufacturers, are not necessarily worth anything.

I think the inverter in question is the one that is sold all over e bay and amazon and they carry a CE certification which is good for all EU countries.

I went on the internet and I looked it up and here is what it says....

''CE certification refers to the requirements made by the European Union (EU) for the products they officially import into the EU nations. Literally it means "Conformité Européenne" or French for "European Conformity." The regulations are designed to protect members of the EU against products that might endanger their safety, pose a pollution hazard to public safety, interfere with electromagnetic devices or create other detrimental effects."

The CE certification is only given to the original manufacture of a product.
TUV= technischer ueberwachungs verein .

[inetdog]

Your inverter has a certification, it is a European certification.

Some European certifications refer to standards with testing done by independent laboratories, like TUV in Germany. Others are "self-certifications" where the manufacturer states that the equipment was built in compliance with the referenced standard. These self-certifications, particularly from non-European manufacturers, are not necessarily worth anything.

[Johann]

Your inverter has a certification, it is a European certification.
The U.S requires an inverter with an UL certification be used, but in other countries it may be legal to use.

You have almost 600 watts of panels, that is to much for this inverter.
It looks like that it is a overheating problem. Power the inverter with 2 panels or 400 watt and that should take care of your problem. It is bad for any electronic device to be overpowered, it will shorten the life.

[Naptown]

SMA makes some small inverters that are very good.

[cbarkerb]

Thank you for your comments. I´m writing from Chile, where the netmetering law has just been dictated and the technical specifications are still in process. Said that, what I have is not illegal (not legal either). Considering that, as cheap as the inverter may be, it shutdowns at power blackouts making it safe for the electric company workers.
I must say that I live at the Atacama desert at 2200 meters of altitude in one of the most irradiated places on Earth with lots of wind too and I´m looking for a solar-eolic (VAWT) combination in order to fulfill my energy requirements (app. 300 kWh/mo).
Electricity price here is about twice the cost in the US (20 cents/kWh) so is far more cost effective, besides the fact that in this region all of the power comes from fossil fuel plants.

Can you recommend a certified grid tie inverter for 0.5 to 1 or 2 kW to replace the one I have?

PS Sorry for my English

[SunEagle]

Hi, I happen to have three 195W solar panels connected to a 600W grid tie inverter (the cheap ones from China).
It works fine reaching maximums, for a couple of hours, of 340W flowing to my meter. The problem is that the inverter shutsdown by itself randomly showing 0.1 or 0.2 Watts output on the separate monitor I put before the plug outlet.
Then I proceed to reset de inverter and it works OK again.
I don`t know if it is a normal safety measure due to overheating, or is the separate monitor (haven`t tried with a different one yet) or something else.
I´d appreciate some feedback from anybody with further knowledge on this matter. Thank you.

You just got really good feedback and advice from russ, sunking and inetdog. Listen to them because that type of inverter besides being non sanctioned is dangerous to anyone that uses it. They fail and usually it involves a fire. The best use for that inverter is being a paperweight.

[russ]

When someone is selling an illegal piece of equipment it stands to reason they are not concerned about quality, specifications or safety.

For a few cents worth of electricity you are endangering your house and family - someone else got upset a couple of days back when I called that stupid.

If your utility found out what you are doing they can cut your connection.