California PG&E "public safety power shutoffs"

[Ampster]

I live in Sonoma and we have been without power for 18 hours but people are remaing calm. There were lines at gas stations the night before. Dry ice supplies are sold out but some markets are open I presume because they have generators for their freezers, lights and cash registers. Ten miles to the west, Petaluma has power and internet. It is a good day to watch my home made wine ferment. Clear skies and the wind is dying down.

[J.P.M.]

it was underreported, more like 600,000 last I heard. Most of the internet is now down, only cell and sat connectivity, all the cable TV and fiber repeaters on telephone poles have burned through their 5 hour backup battery.
Thursday afternoon/evening, the winds are expected to die down, and after inspecting all the lines, the power should start coming back on Saturday.

Think of the chaos caused by a hurricane warning, grocery stored emptied out, gas stations pumped dry, batteries and candles sold out. Add the din of small generators everywhere, folks breathing the CO and dying, and small fires from refueling hot generators. And most areas, did not have the predicted high winds.


UPDATE 10-9-2019 11:15 p.m. -- PG&E has just released a new press release, but without any significant information — and no new maps. In this second phase of power shut-offs the utility company has provided little to no information to the general public of press about timing or location. It is unclear to what extent they have warned individual customers, but anecdotal evidence points to little. It does appear now that these new outages have begun, and are hitting parts of Berkeley, the Oakland hills and Santa Cruz County, though the County of Alameda said that power would go out there at midnight.

Mike: Be safe. Keeping you in mind.

J.P.M.

[BoloMKXXVIII]

At least many of us in Florida who have dealt with hurricanes know how to handle being without power for extended periods. Many of our gas stations and grocery stores have their own generators. I doubt that is the case in California.

[Mike90250]

I just got a news flash that about 500,000 people were without power in northern CA. I hope people stay safe. I also wonder how true the news flash was.

it was underreported, more like 600,000 last I heard. Most of the internet is now down, only cell and sat connectivity, all the cable TV and fiber repeaters on telephone poles have burned through their 5 hour backup battery.
Thursday afternoon/evening, the winds are expected to die down, and after inspecting all the lines, the power should start coming back on Saturday.

Think of the chaos caused by a hurricane warning, grocery stored emptied out, gas stations pumped dry, batteries and candles sold out. Add the din of small generators everywhere, folks breathing the CO and dying, and small fires from refueling hot generators. And most areas, did not have the predicted high winds.

https://www.facebook.com/MendoVoice/?__tn__=%2Cd%2CP-R&eid=ARBmXsOmXyB-wLhmB8r4t7XKhXGcCxjkKLesl3iX2b0j_sioOPZH1Z3pp0WDSeWNEQpXauzf1H-96TMN

&

https://www.mendovoice.com/2019/10/phase-2-of-pges-planned-outage-delayed-800-more-customers-expected-to-lose-power-in-mendocino-fire-risk-remains/?fbclid=IwAR3CLhd2XsNlLUH6xXqrjS-tdkyPoksfQr2znbKznRc96Ou_eFCohqEL-YA

UPDATE 10-9-2019 11:15 p.m. -- PG&E has just released a new press release, but without any significant information — and no new maps. In this second phase of power shut-offs the utility company has provided little to no information to the general public of press about timing or location. It is unclear to what extent they have warned individual customers, but anecdotal evidence points to little. It does appear now that these new outages have begun, and are hitting parts of Berkeley, the Oakland hills and Santa Cruz County, though the County of Alameda said that power would go out there at midnight.

[solardreamer]

Although this is not exactly the type of outage scenarios I was planning for, I am glad to have a natural gas portable generator so I don't have to worry about engine gum up or running out of fuel.

[BoloMKXXVIII]

http://investor.pgecorp.com/news-events/press-releases/press-release-details/2019/PGE-Will-Proactively-Turn-Off-Power-for-Safety-to-Nearly-800000-Customers-Across-Northern-and-Central-California/default.aspx

Straight from the horses'...mouth.

[BoloMKXXVIII]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/10/09/california-pge-power-outage-affect-millions-prevent-wildfire/3916848002/

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/Shut-offs-begin-PG-E-imposes-mass-blackouts-on-14503033.php

I just hope everyone keeps calm, slows down, and stays safe.

[SunEagle]

They do. But they typically last ~8 hours or so.


Yep.

Normally I recommend generators for people who are planning for disasters, specifically propane generators to avoid the fuel-stability problem. But the PG+E (and SDG+E) problems may change the calculus on that. Often when power goes out in Eastern states it's due to weather - storms, very high tides, ice etc. And during those times often you don't have sun and you don't know when the power is coming back, making solar+storage systems questionable. And often you get little warning, or the wrong warnings.

But in California, we are now seeing utilities shut down sections of the grid during some of the sunniest times of year, and there is generally a few days of warning as well as an estimate for how long it will be out. All those things favor solar+storage as backup. And this will just get worse. After the Paradise fire and resulting bankruptcy of PG+E, no utility is going to want to roll the dice on retaining power on high risk days in high risk areas. And as the climate warms, we will have more and more high risk days. Thus, any investment in battery storage is going to have more certainty behind it than a large generator purchase.

I agree that batteries and solar may start to make financial sense in CA if the POCO's plan on daylight outages.

[jflorey2]

I would think the cell towers have backup systems in place.

They do. But they typically last ~8 hours or so.

When all those people start buying generators, they're going to be very unhappy when it fails to run after sitting in storage for 6 months or a year because of the ethanol.

Yep.

Normally I recommend generators for people who are planning for disasters, specifically propane generators to avoid the fuel-stability problem. But the PG+E (and SDG+E) problems may change the calculus on that. Often when power goes out in Eastern states it's due to weather - storms, very high tides, ice etc. And during those times often you don't have sun and you don't know when the power is coming back, making solar+storage systems questionable. And often you get little warning, or the wrong warnings.

But in California, we are now seeing utilities shut down sections of the grid during some of the sunniest times of year, and there is generally a few days of warning as well as an estimate for how long it will be out. All those things favor solar+storage as backup. And this will just get worse. After the Paradise fire and resulting bankruptcy of PG+E, no utility is going to want to roll the dice on retaining power on high risk days in high risk areas. And as the climate warms, we will have more and more high risk days. Thus, any investment in battery storage is going to have more certainty behind it than a large generator purchase.

[SunEagle]

I just got a news flash that about 500,000 people were without power in northern CA. I hope people stay safe. I also wonder how true the news flash was.

[BoloMKXXVIII]

Ethanol is not hard to deal with. Not sure why everyone thinks it's the worst thing ever. Add a little stabil and drain your carb and you won't have any issues.

Ethanol is tough on equipment not built to handle it. It also contributes to water issues and most stabilizers really don't do much to mitigate the problem. Ethanol from corn was a political decision. Lobbyists rarely (never) make the best choices for the country as a whole. There are enough people around the world that would love to have the corn to eat instead of turning it into fuel. I only burn recreational fuel through the small air cooled engines I maintain. Not using ethanol and draining the carb solves most run problems.

[emartin00]

I would think the cell towers have backup systems in place. Once the phone companies start losing money due to non-service complaints, I'm guessing they'll install solar backup power systems or some other form of backup that can keep the tower going for an extended period.

When all those people start buying generators, they're going to be very unhappy when it fails to run after sitting in storage for 6 months or a year because of the ethanol.

Cell towers typically do have small backup batteries to help them ride through short power outages. More remote ones will also have a standby generator.
If they have never had power issues in this area, many of them probably will still drop offline after a day or so.

Ethanol is not hard to deal with. Not sure why everyone thinks it's the worst thing ever. Add a little stabil and drain your carb and you won't have any issues.

[Ampster]

I have 2kW of panels on my Skybox hybrid inverter and that is enough to chage my batteries in the morning and carry me through the rest of the day. I am still waiting for Outback to release firmware upgrade so I can AC couple my 5.7 kW grid tie system.
I would only need that amount of power to run my AC and charge my car. I just got back from dinner and every gas station has long lines with people filling up because with no power tomorrow there will be no gas to pump. I am foolishly charging my car at peak rate of $0.53 per kWhr just to make sure I have enough Coulombs to get out of town if in unlikely event I have to evacuate.

[Salts]

I think I have about 10 kWhrs. My usage after solar drops off is about 300 Watts

That's about what I figure I will get out of my Chevy Volt batteries. When the grid goes down, we'll go into AC Coupling mode so the house runs directly off the panels during the day. I know for a fact that we draw between 17 and 18 kWh per day and most of that is during the day. The Chevy batteries should carry me all night without breaking a sweat.

[Ampster]

I think I have about 10 kWhrs. My usage after solar drops off is about 300 Watts