Off the grid in SoCal

[BruceNewEngland]

Hey James, congrats on your success, and thanks for the update. I’m in the early stages of learning, and appreciate it when folks take the time to share their experiences.

Mike suggested a wood stove. I started out with a fireplace, and learned that it wasn’t a good fit for me in the chilly North East: all that air going up the chimney had to be replaced by air, cold air, drawn in through many small paths. A few years ago I added a wood stove that was discounted for being a demo unit. It radiates tons of heat and has been great!

Have you read up on lead acid batteries, and what they require for service when used in a solar system as you describe? I’m coming to terms with the fact that I’m going to have to use higher maintenance lead acid batteries for my project, can’t afford a big bank of lithium’s.

How is your wiring holding up?
Bruce.

[onesmallonebig]

Couldn't agree more about the thing everyone has, seems here some have more than one!! Keep up the good work!!

I dont know how good it is, but I'm workin hard at doing it. And having fun.

[onesmallonebig]

My wife has two.

lol might you be one? My Ex had two too.
Anyway, I'm back for a three month later update...
I guess God takes care of fools and drunks. Of which I am both occasionally, but I'm also an devoted Atheist.
My house hasn't "burned down by a catastrophic fire" that my Frank Sinatra ignorance was sure to cause. My free 30 year old battery cables didn't melt. My "completely wrong batteries that wont last 6 months" are hitting 14.4v on the small system and 42.6v on the big system by 10am every sunny day. Each bank of my 7p1s and 4p3s (is that backwards? You get the point if it is) of my cheap Walmart batts never gets below Nominal voltages and made it 6 months, so far. To be completely honest, I don't even go out there anymore. I used to tilt the array several times a day to follow the sun precisely, but i got busy and forgot for a few days and nothing was different, so I stopped bothering to tilt them at all. I've left them locked in the noon position for the last two months. I even stopped bothering to clean the panels once a week. I literally haven't even been near the system in over a month. They do there thing without me. Wasn't that the goal?
I went out today and diligently washed them and tilted them just a smidgen so this picture would look purdy for you guys. Used a whole damn roll of paper towels and a whole damn bottle of Windex. I'll wash them again over Christmas... probably, if I'm not to busy getting drunk, like a gud Amerikan is supposed to do on all holidays.
I wired my work shop to run completely off of the small (12v, 350w) system 24/7 and the big (36v, 1860w. I guess technically its a 72v, 930w system now since I hooked up two panels in series into 3 parallel sets of 72v thanks to you guys, but 1860w was the original size and sounds better, and the inverter is still 36v to 110v) system runs the whole house 24/7. Still haven't figured out how to use the 36v to 220v inverter on my oven and dryer. I gave up, screw it.
I do need to buy a bigger inverter someday, 1000/2000w on both systems, cause sometime when the fridge kicks on and the swamp cooler is already on, the damn TV shuts off. A minor inconvenience.
Now the important part...
My last three Edison power bills were $24, $15, and only $16 this month (more proof available upon request and a small fee). And the bills haven't been above $50 since I started this little project 6 months ago. That's with the A/C, fridge, TV, etc running virtually 24/7 on solar. Edison's add on fees are about $10 a month even if I use zero of their electricity. My ceiling lights, microwave, oven and dryer are still solely on the grid and staying that way. Hence the minimal monthly Edison bill. But everything else is off the grid now, even my 110v Jacuzzi. My new fireplace is ready to go again this winter... only the occasional electric heater will be used on solar power when my nipples get hard and im too lazy to smoke up the place. I figure I've saved about a grand of my booze and gambling money in the last 6 months. Another year or so and my $3000 total solar system investment will be completely recouped. If I live that long.
End of update.
James

[J.P.M.]

Couldn't agree more about the thing everyone has, seems here some have more than one!! Keep up the good work!!

My wife has two.

[skates]

Couldn't agree more about the thing everyone has, seems here some have more than one!! Keep up the good work!!

[onesmallonebig]

You're welcome for the welcome. It's refreshing of have a non snowflake show up 1X/a while. BTW, I share your comment about the rate of learning being directly proportional to the distance from financial insolvency from experience. But poverty does more for expediency than elegant of design. Take the longer and more global view and you'll use what you've gained more efficiently.

But, I'll share Littleharbor's comment and follow his lead about not wasting my time and doing little more than pissing you off in the process and having your stubbornness drive you forward like a powerful stem locomotive with no flanges on the wheels. I would respectfully suggest you consider rereading and internalizing Jeff's comments.

At this time, ignorance is your worst enemy.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

Somehow I missed a few messages. Too busy arguing with some people to see the trees for the forest. But it's been fun and didn't piss me off at all. Opinions are like a..holes, everybody's got one. Two so-called experts will fight with each other endlessly trying to force the other to change their mind. I'm not here to change anyone's mind. And no one can change mine. Ignorance is what drives me to learn more. But I dont want to learn too fast. The journey getting there and the little stumbles along the way are the best part, not the end result. But both systems are up and running now... My way. I'm happy, even though it's completely wrong.

The journey continues

[onesmallonebig]

So jflorey2 basically, everything I've done my whole life is wrong. Wait, it's more fun to respond point by point.


You'll end up going back to propane.

LOL damn. I still have all the pipe plumbing and furnaces that i originally built into the house.
But what happens when the fuel to deliver the propane costs $10 a gallon and the propane costs $5 a gallon?
I'll be heat pump heating my home and cooking and watching TV with "almost" free solar as the truck just keeps on going by
It's actually not easier to have propane delivered to my house. I've been through three companies over the years.
I'll go back to hauling my little tanks myself to the local market first.

My 7kw generator runs on diesel.

No way, the cute little portable water heater stays. I use it to heat my jacuzzi water too. I know I know. buy a propane jacuzzi water heater lol

The space heaters are long gone since I put in the fireplace, I promise.

Okay, I admit that I'm dumb. But is propane really a miracle fuel as you claim it is?

But a prepper whose power system burns down the first time there's a high wind isn't much of a prepper.

I didn't say I was a prepper. If it burns down then I'll just call my insurance agent and make 10 grand. We play golf together.

You are making a plan that is going to require lots and lots of $$.

No I'm not. I've spent the last dime ($3000) that I'm gonna spend on this project.

That is, by far, the worst (and most expensive) way to put together a system.

I build stuff backwards all the time. It's fun to see where it goes.Like a small snowball rolling down a mountain. If it doesn't work... next project.

Budget for replacement of all those batteries once a year.

Now this upsets me. I was hoping for two years, if I'm careful.

Massive parallel 12V batteries last about that long. And if you stick with that amount of solar, make it every six months, since you will never fully charge them. (Unless you have a generator, but that's a lot of propane.)

Please define massive? OMG Six months? I'm going out tomorrow and buy a GD propane generator :")

And a heat pump thingy

And a big ass battery and a 100 brand new #2 marine battery cables

Oh, and a propane water heater, stove, dryer, coffee pot, fridge, fireplace insert. Am I forgetting anything?

[Mike90250]

Wood heat - look at the Vermont Bun Baker with soapstone cladding. One or two fires a day in the firebox and the soap stone levels the heat, instead of trying to keep a smoldering fire going 24/7

https://www.vermontwoodstove.com/vermont-bun-baker/

[J.P.M.]

J.P.M...
I'm reading, I'm reading lol.
But a little late now too abandoned what I've got. I'm broke now.
I dont allow sales pitches to exist in my world. I'd rather juat give them money to go away

How serious am I? I'm willing to die trying to go off the grid. Is that serious enough?

I've been lowering my energy bill as much as I can for 30 years. Except when I'm cold. Then screw it, the price is no object.

- Turn stuff off. - Turn stuff on only when needed.
Done. I only have one lamp, the tv, the satellite tv box, internet box, my laptop and my fridge on now and that's it 90% of the time. But that other 10%... ouch!
My power bill is $50 to $100 a month. Last month it was only $27. Thanks to my dinky 450W solar and more so the new fireplace.
I'm not a housewife living in surbubia with 6 kids. It's just me. And I'm thriftier then most everybody, always have been. You learn to be very fast when you are poor.

- Try not to need to use stuff.
This is great! Big difference between need and want. I love manual labor, aka hobbies. I'm a retired bum. I dont even use my air tools. I would literally rather turn wrenches and bust my knuckles. I'm even sharpened my axe to split my own firewood. But, its so nice smoking a cigar and sipping whiskey while sitting in my lounge chair sawing wood in half with a skill saw. I NEED a solar powered skill saw lol.

I could spend an hour telling you how I save every drop of $energy$ I can. You are preaching to the choir my friend. Now I want to be able to waste energy for free, aka solar lol

I definitely NEED more education in the basics and practical aspects of residential PV applications... two months ago. My system is a work in progress. Who knows where it could be in a year from now. Could even be a ten acre solar farm on the adjacent property I own. Ok, I lied. I'm not poor. IM CHEAP.

Thanks for the welcome JPM. I appreciate and respect cander. And dont worry, I have have really thick skin. I love to be told I cant do something and go do it anyway. And I'm not talking about cognitive dissonance, more like just plain stubborn.

You're welcome for the welcome. It's refreshing of have a non snowflake show up 1X/a while. BTW, I share your comment about the rate of learning being directly proportional to the distance from financial insolvency from experience. But poverty does more for expediency than elegant of design. Take the longer and more global view and you'll use what you've gained more efficiently.

But, I'll share Littleharbor's comment and follow his lead about not wasting my time and doing little more than pissing you off in the process and having your stubbornness drive you forward like a powerful stem locomotive with no flanges on the wheels. I would respectfully suggest you consider rereading and internalizing Jeff's comments.

At this time, ignorance is your worst enemy.

Good luck in your future endeavors.

[onesmallonebig]

Thanks for the great info littleharbor. I don't want to take any more of your time. I'll just get to learnin' what you've said. Thanks again.

[jflorey2]

2. Time to sell all your electric appliances that could be operated on gas.
No. I bought a small Energy Star fridge, dryer and stove ten years ago when I converted to all electric. Going back to propane is not an option for so many reasons, unless I can get it out of the ground on my property myself?

You'll end up going back to propane. A lot easier to get propane delivered than haul ten tons of batteries into your place. And you'll need the propane for your generator anyway. Solar will reduce the need for propane so it will last longer.

Also use a on-demand (warm with slow flow) 110v 1100W 7 gallon electric water heater with a GFCI outlet.

Yeah, that's gotta go.

Oh yeah, space heaters are a lot more dangerous than fireplaces. Especially the new ones. I use 50 year old ones that are lucky to put out 750w.

That too.

Think of me as a dumb DIYer, hermit, doomsday prepper living in a, to code with all the necessary permits, three bedroom shack, on 1000 acres (no neighbors nearby) in the middle of BFE, 12 miles from a Walmart

Sounds fun. But unless you are made of money, you'll have to do things a little more intelligently. And that means heat (and backup generator) from propane.

Everything is outside except two extension cords, so let it burn. I'll build another one the next day.

Again, if you are that rich, great. But a prepper whose power system burns down the first time there's a high wind isn't much of a prepper.

You learn to be very fast when you are poor.

You have a serious disconnect here. You are making a plan that is going to require lots and lots of $$.

To be honest, I dont really care how much juice each item uses. I want to use these items, no matter what they use. I like them. I'm back engineering the system. If I find that I need more power, I'll make my solar system bigger.

That is, by far, the worst (and most expensive) way to put together a system.

For the first month I had 12 batteries hooked up to only 300w of panels and it was lasting 3 days, with minimal usage of the power company for big wattage appliances, like the dryer and stove. So I'm thinking 450W will cover my daily 110v usage. I stole 4 batteries from it to build the 1860W system. I think I will need more storage than just 19 batteries to play housewife (single father of two dogs and a cat) and cook and clean though.

Budget for replacement of all those batteries once a year. Massive parallel 12V batteries last about that long. And if you stick with that amount of solar, make it every six months, since you will never fully charge them. (Unless you have a generator, but that's a lot of propane.)

[littleharbor]

LITTLEHARBOR...
1. You have a lot of reading to do.
True.

2. Time to sell all your electric appliances that could be operated on gas.
No. I bought a small Energy Star fridge, dryer and stove ten years ago when I converted to all electric. Going back to propane is not an option for so many reasons, unless I can get it out of the ground on my property myself? Also use a on-demand (warm with slow flow) 110v 1100W 7 gallon electric water heater with a GFCI outlet. Think of me as a dumb DIYer, hermit, doomsday prepper living in a, to code with all the necessary permits, three bedroom shack, on 1000 acres (no neighbors nearby) in the middle of BFE, 12 miles from a Walmart

3. While the array in the photo looks nice you will get very little power from those large panels with the small ones shading them.
Thank you. Its they way it came out. No aesthetics intended. No, they dont shade each other. They are all on the same plane and all pivot as one FLAT unit. See back build pic __0002.


4. There's a lot more about your set up that's wrong that without being corrected will result in premature failure, if not an outright flaming disaster.
Everything is outside except two extension cords, so let it burn. I'll build another one the next day. I waste too much money on home owner's insurance anyway But I am curious to read your top ten list as to why you think it could end up a outright flaming disaster? That's about what the pros said when I decided to build my house myself instead in 1986.. and saved 70 grand.

5. When in doubt, go back to #1
Will do.

Not going to waste much of my time here as you sound like the type who learns best by learning the hard way, even inviting it. Anybody who wants to use 20, 12 volt batteries in a 12 volt system using stolen car battery cables and jumper cables for your connections is inviting disaster. Learn why higher voltage systems are safer and why your battery cables need to be properly and carefully made. Also you need to learn why larger, lower voltage, deep cycle batteries are used in off grid systems. A properly designed battery bank will have a single string of batteries, not 20 .

[onesmallonebig]

J.P.M...
I'm reading, I'm reading lol.
But a little late now too abandoned what I've got. I'm broke now.
I dont allow sales pitches to exist in my world. I'd rather juat give them money to go away

How serious am I? I'm willing to die trying to go off the grid. Is that serious enough?

I've been lowering my energy bill as much as I can for 30 years. Except when I'm cold. Then screw it, the price is no object.

- Turn stuff off. - Turn stuff on only when needed.
Done. I only have one lamp, the tv, the satellite tv box, internet box, my laptop and my fridge on now and that's it 90% of the time. But that other 10%... ouch!
My power bill is $50 to $100 a month. Last month it was only $27. Thanks to my dinky 450W solar and more so the new fireplace.
I'm not a housewife living in surbubia with 6 kids. It's just me. And I'm thriftier then most everybody, always have been. You learn to be very fast when you are poor.

- Try not to need to use stuff.
This is great! Big difference between need and want. I love manual labor, aka hobbies. I'm a retired bum. I dont even use my air tools. I would literally rather turn wrenches and bust my knuckles. I'm even sharpened my axe to split my own firewood. But, its so nice smoking a cigar and sipping whiskey while sitting in my lounge chair sawing wood in half with a skill saw. I NEED a solar powered skill saw lol.

I could spend an hour telling you how I save every drop of $energy$ I can. You are preaching to the choir my friend. Now I want to be able to waste energy for free, aka solar lol

I definitely NEED more education in the basics and practical aspects of residential PV applications... two months ago. My system is a work in progress. Who knows where it could be in a year from now. Could even be a ten acre solar farm on the adjacent property I own. Ok, I lied. I'm not poor. IM CHEAP.

Thanks for the welcome JPM. I appreciate and respect cander. And dont worry, I have have really thick skin. I love to be told I cant do something and go do it anyway. And I'm not talking about cognitive dissonance, more like just plain stubborn.

[onesmallonebig]

LITTLEHARBOR...
1. You have a lot of reading to do.
True.

2. Time to sell all your electric appliances that could be operated on gas.
No. I bought a small Energy Star fridge, dryer and stove ten years ago when I converted to all electric. Going back to propane is not an option for so many reasons, unless I can get it out of the ground on my property myself? Also use a on-demand (warm with slow flow) 110v 1100W 7 gallon electric water heater with a GFCI outlet. Think of me as a dumb DIYer, hermit, doomsday prepper living in a, to code with all the necessary permits, three bedroom shack, on 1000 acres (no neighbors nearby) in the middle of BFE, 12 miles from a Walmart

3. While the array in the photo looks nice you will get very little power from those large panels with the small ones shading them.
Thank you. Its they way it came out. No aesthetics intended. No, they dont shade each other. They are all on the same plane and all pivot as one FLAT unit. See back build pic __0002.


4. There's a lot more about your set up that's wrong that without being corrected will result in premature failure, if not an outright flaming disaster.
Everything is outside except two extension cords, so let it burn. I'll build another one the next day. I waste too much money on home owner's insurance anyway But I am curious to read your top ten list as to why you think it could end up a outright flaming disaster? That's about what the pros said when I decided to build my house myself instead in 1986.. and saved 70 grand.

5. When in doubt, go back to #1
Will do.

[onesmallonebig]

BCROE... I dont like quoting.
Oh my God!!! You have enough panels to light up a small city. I'm so jealous, That's it. I'm buying more 310w panels tomorrow
Anyway, I have Energy star appliances and unplug everything I can when I'm not using it. No red standby lights and no courtesy clocks.

I spent summers in Athens on my great granddad's farm chasing piglets.

Not interested in net metering with my power company.
My goal is being independent and self contained. No way around batteries off grid that I know of when the sun goes down, except windmills.

Always loved fireplaces and campfires. Love the smell, the smoke, the danger, and using my solar powered skill saw to cut 16" pieces I finally have one again after 12 years. Its staying. Plus, I have an unlimited supply of free firewood.

To be honest, I dont really care how much juice each item uses. I want to use these items, no matter what they use. I like them. I'm back engineering the system. If I find that I need more power, I'll make my solar system bigger.

The tracking is optional really. Most of the time I just leave them locked in the noon position, I'm old and lazy. I dont use much energy normally, except when I'm cold to power 110V space heaters. No way could I live in northern IL.

I have no clue what this stuff is... yet.
"Mii-Split heat pumps with up to 33 SEER"
But I will soon. I'm stuck with this 2 grand of batteries for now, but I will look into that for upgrade later. Sounds cool. Thanks for the info Bruce.

BRCOE part 2...

Add away Bruce, that's why I'm here... To pluck your guys brains.

I originally built my house all propane... stove, dryer, water heater, wall furnaces in each room, etc.

I even minimized heat loss by insulating the interior walls of my raised floor house too.

I've heard about Kill-A-Watt meters. I'll get one soon.

No phantom loads here.
No garage, no central furnace, no printer, new TV, smoke detectors are battery operated and long ago dead, never had CO detectors, other electronics unplugged, Okay, two battery maintainers 24/7 so my cordless drill and lipo headlight always work on demand, microwave
always unplugged.

I bought the smallest ES fridge-freezer I could live with. Security devices? Do the make electric guns?
I live to repurpose scrap. It's my hobby. My life. My love.

Small wind? Here a small wind is the daily 20-30 mph breeze. Thats why I have always had a nice view of a million wind generators. And now ten million solar panels.

Huh? Mini Split heat pump technology?
Its on my reading list. Sounds like some kind of thermal vulcano stuff. An Old faithful geyser?

No HVAC either. DRY West Coast... Big window swamp cooler that will freeze me if I leave it on too long.

SEER? Are you psychic?
I had to look it up...
Seasonal energy efficiency ratio
Okay, I needed to work on the winter season for sure
That's what the fireplace is for. Couldn't have one for the last 12 years because I was the sole caregiver for my handicapped mother and she didnt like fireplaces. So out it went, along with most of my stuff. I moved my mom and dad in with me when my dad was diagnosed as terminally ill in '07. I moved into my den. He died in my master bedroom 6 months later. 12 years later my mom died at 90 in my master bedroom too, last November. Now I can do what I want again in my own house that I built... finally.
I have a roasty toasty fire going now. I would post a pic of it, but its the wrong forum
SEER Winters are handled. Now to kiss the power company goodbye the rest of the year, except for the occasional one night stand.

For the first month I had 12 batteries hooked up to only 300w of panels and it was lasting 3 days, with minimal usage of the power company for big wattage appliances, like the dryer and stove. So I'm thinking 450W will cover my daily 110v usage. I stole 4 batteries from it to build the 1860W system. I think I will need more storage than just 19 batteries to play housewife (single father of two dogs and a cat) and cook and clean though.

I clicked on your pics... Invalid File Specified. Then I logged in and saw them. Again wow!

Yeah, I'm rethinking this PITA tracking. Froze my butt off last night in 40 mph winds to manually pivot them from 6pm to 6am position. I think I will just leave them at the noon position for a month and see what happens when I get the 1860W panels online.

Oh yeah, space heaters are a lot more dangerous than fireplaces. Especially the new ones. I use 50 year old ones that are lucky to put out 750w. A good test for my new kill a watt meter.

Okay wait. Heat pump? I had to look it up. Are you talking about running hot water all over your house to get the radiant heat from it by blowing fans through mini radiators in each room? I saw those at home depot. I think they were mini ACs though. Same principal. So you use solar to heat water to warm up your house? Cool!!! No wonder you have 4000 panels. I also boil a pan of water of the stove and put a fan behind it. Caveman heat pump? I actually like the warm moisture in the air. Its like your heat pump with a leak