Hello From Sunny Florida

[Djole]

Sure I'd be happy to show you my system and tell you all about it. Where are you located?

BTW I installed a 14.3KW system and have had a 0 power bill past 5 months (Teco charges a $15.41 connection fee no matter what)

Thanks so much. I'm in Tampa by the airport and i want to make a similar system 14-16 kw.

Thank you. You can remove the email by editing the post.

[CessnaTPA]

CessnaTPA i saw your video on youtube great job i like what you did with the solar. I'm planing on DIY system and since i'm so close to Riverview if you don't mind taking a look at your system that would be help me a ton if you have a few minutes of your time.

Sure I'd be happy to show you my system and tell you all about it. Where are you located?


BTW I installed a 14.3KW system and have had a 0 power bill past 5 months (Teco charges a $15.41 connection fee no matter what)

[Djole]

Glad to be your newest member, having been on car & motorcycle forums in the past I know there will be a wealth of information on here.

I've just begun to start my research and planning for a grid tie solar system for my home. My usage is 2120 kWh a month and my back roof faces south with 1000+ sq ft of roof space at a 20% pitch.

My electric company have different categories of solar installs. Teir 1 under 10kw A.C., teir 2 above 10kw to 100kw which from what I've read the only difference is the requirement of 1 million dollar liability insurance ($39 more a year) and a $250 applications fee. I'm thinking about a 12kw-15kw system but when I've talked to 2 solar installers they both Immediately said they can do above 10kw but recommend staying teir 1. I explained I was fine with the extra insurance and $250 fee. But they still pushed the smaller system. I felt they were not telling me the whole story. Any thoughts why?

CessnaTPA i saw your video on youtube great job i like what you did with the solar. I'm planing on DIY system and since i'm so close to Riverview if you don't mind taking a look at your system that would be help me a ton if you have a few minutes of your time.

[CessnaTPA]

Let me know guys. I have Duke in pasco and am looking. If i can't do it myself I am not going forward. My neighbor across the street just got a quote for a new breaker box 200amp. Lowest bid was $2500 highest $5000 and the contractor had the balls to tell him be done in one day. When I told him parts were probably less than $300 he was not happy. I really don't trust many people touching my house, my less getting bids when the contractor is used to dealing with older people who don't have a clue

I'm in Hillsborough county and was able to do 100% of the work as a homeowner. Go down to your local permitting office and ask if you can pull a homeowners permit.
I agree with you if I couldn't have done this project myself I wouldn't have. Personally I can't justify what contractors are charging to go solar. I know someone who recently got a quote on a 15kw system for $48k and a buddy who had a 9kw system installed for 28k. I'm an industrial electrician and was not impressed with my buddy's install, conduit work looked like a 1st year apprentice did it.
I installed my 14kw 39 LG 365W panels with Enphase mico inverters for $16,888 ($11,821 after the tax break)
I went online 10-16-18 and have been keeping track to the penny what it's producing. As of 1-15-19 it's reduced my bill $661.53, at this rate it should pay for itself in 4-5 years.
Let us know what you find out, I'm curious what the rules are in Pasco.

[thjohnson58]

Let me know guys. I have Duke in pasco and am looking. If i can't do it myself I am not going forward. My neighbor across the street just got a quote for a new breaker box 200amp. Lowest bid was $2500 highest $5000 and the contractor had the balls to tell him be done in one day. When I told him parts were probably less than $300 he was not happy. I really don't trust many people touching my house, my less getting bids when the contractor is used to dealing with older people who don't have a clue

[CessnaTPA]

Have you upgraded your home yet?

Every dollar you spend on upgrading like energy efficiency appliances, HVAC, Insulation, Windows, and Doors will save you $2 in RE installation cost. Not only that has immediate positive net gain on your home. Solar in FL is likely to have negative net equity gain.

At 70 Kwh/day you either have a very large luxury home, or one in need of energy upgrading.

I have not installed solar yet, I'm waiting to install a new roof 1st.

[CessnaTPA]

Hey how can i get in contact with you. I am in Pasco and also on Withlacocchee and was thinking of doing my own install. The costs here are easily 25k for a 7KW system. I have worked on roofs most of my life helping friends and have all the tools necessary to do my own. I also was thinking of pulling my own permit in Pasco as well. I can help you if you need .

Lu

I'm actually South of Tampa in Riverview.

[Sunking]

Have you upgraded your home yet?

Every dollar you spend on upgrading like energy efficiency appliances, HVAC, Insulation, Windows, and Doors will save you $2 in RE installation cost. Not only that has immediate positive net gain on your home. Solar in FL is likely to have negative net equity gain.

At 70 Kwh/day you either have a very large luxury home, or one in need of energy upgrading.

[TundraLu]

I found out I can pull my own permit as a home owner and do the whole install myself.

Hey how can i get in contact with you. I am in Pasco and also on Withlacocchee and was thinking of doing my own install. The costs here are easily 25k for a 7KW system. I have worked on roofs most of my life helping friends and have all the tools necessary to do my own. I also was thinking of pulling my own permit in Pasco as well. I can help you if you need .

Lu

[BackwoodsEE]

In hydro-rich WA, the power rates are pretty reasonable, but there is a tiered rate structure that gets more expensive with more consumption. We have full net metering. My goal is just to eliminate my POCO consumption at the third tier ($0.09/kWh). Considering our dark winters and clouds and trees, it's not exactly an ideal solar location, so I'm not trying for more than that (plus some very expensive backup capability, but that's another topic).

[SunEagle]

I found out I can pull my own permit as a home owner and do the whole install myself.

That is good to know. It looks like Fl has relaxed it's rule of needing someone that is Solar Certified to do the install.

The change may have happened because the State refund credit for a solar install dried up and there is no longer any cost reduction except what you can get from the Feds.

Still make sure your TECO rep agrees with your design on the interconnection along with allowing you to land the wires in your main panel.

[CessnaTPA]

Sounds like you have a plan. Let us know what TECO allows you to do on the installation.

Where I am now, Duke would not allow me to do anything which made it expensive and very hard to justify an installation. But maybe my new POCO, Withlacoochee Electric will allow me more flexibility on installs next year.

I found out I can pull my own permit as a home owner and do the whole install myself.

[bcroe]

All true, but there are other approaches. Nothing wrong with increased electric consumption along with
solar, if that was the plan; mine has gone up more than 5 times. With the price of propane varying from
$1 to $5.25 already (who knows for the future), its just a guess how many gallons I won't buy, and at
what price. The heat pump is quite competitive with propane most of the year, and at $2.25
a gallon even resistance heat matches it. Bruce Roe

[J.P.M.]

I am having a hard time thinking of that as negative revenue. The plant was expensive, but now paid for.
Cost of generation is near zero. In my case they pay me zero for excess; I don't care because I paid zero
for it. The local problem is that the harshness of winters varies so greatly. I am equipped to deal with the
coldest, which leaves quite a surplus after a mild one. Bruce Roe

Bruce: Think of the money you spent on PV as prepaying your electric bill. The cost of generation can be anything you choose to call it, incliding zero - your money, your table, your game. But, what you, I and lots of other folks have done is commonly amortized over some time span (payback period is one way name). There are many ways to calculate that cost and spread it over a period of time, often years. In one sense, you're hoping the current and future cost of electricity is higher than you projected, particularly with a high offset, because that will give you a better actual ROI for what you generate than you projected it would be (rates went up more than you guessed). For large but < 100 % offsets you're a happy camper. At 100% offset (which BTW, is often/usually less than the most cost effective system size), you don't care what happens to rates - your entire bill is effectively a sunk cost with a variable ROI - with that ROI dependent on what happens to rates.

Now, if excess generation is paid to you at a rate that's less than the cost of electricity your PV is replacing (as it almost always is @ ~~ $0.03-$0.06/kWh for excess generation), that is indeed system revenue, but that revenue for the overgeneration in excess of use is a lot less than the value of the power you're "undergenerating" up to the limits of your use, with that undergeneration subsequently either offsetting POCO delivered power, or feeding to the grid, again up to the limits of your use.

I'm not an accountant (and I don't play one on TV), but I think I understand what Max is writing. I'm not sure I'd call the difference between NEM rates and overgeneration reimbursement rates negative revenue as much as simply a poor use of resources or assets by knowingly spending more on excess PV that is known (or ought to be known) to have a lousy ROI and thus a poor investment for the excess incremental generating capacity.

As a practical matter, overgeneration almost always lowers ROI. It's a choice a lot of solar ignorant folks make not knowing the consequences of what they're doing and kind of ironic - bitching about their electric bill and getting a bunch of quotes, and then making decisions about sizing (and other things - or leaving those details to the vendor, which is a formula for getting big time screwed), and doing things in such a way that will usually and commonly almost guarantee a greater long term cost of electricity than what they're bitching about in the first place. Seen it up close and personal about 100 times so far and counting. But, not my money, decision or life.

[max2k]

I am having a hard time thinking of that as negative revenue. The plant was expensive, but now paid for.
Cost of generation is near zero. In my case they pay me zero for excess; I don't care because I paid zero
for it. The local problem is that the harshness of winters varies so greatly. I am equipped to deal with the
coldest, which leaves quite a surplus after a mild one. Bruce Roe

PV don't last forever so if its amortization period is close to its life expectation you'll be exactly where you started but with 'that thing' on your roof or in your case- on your property. If it had ROI of 5 years - no problem, as you said I'd care less if I'm not making much but reality is I'm investing upfront and if I over- invest I'll never see those money back simply because my bill was not that high to begin with.

As normal politics go this problem has another solution- increase your consumption to justify expense but that usually works well if the investment money belonged to the public.