Georgia on my mind

[Yet another Yeti]

What is this ?

The Grid-Tied Inverter seems not not to be connected to the grid ...,
or are there wires behind that "panel" ?

[Pop Alexandra]

You can also consider some Argo panels if you haven't solved the issue yet.

MOD NOTE: Please do not attach advertisement links to your post without permission from the Admin.

[HOASUNBuster]

Fair enough. The CLX is considered a "conduit" so it should meet code.

Usually an inspector would not let you to just leave a hole in the wall for any electrical "raceway'' to come through. They want a covering or surface mounted box. Seems aesthetics is big for some people.

I will give you that I shouldn't have a hole in my wall next to the electrical panel but I intentionally left it open for inspection. I just haven't decided how to make it look pretty yet. A plastic box with a removable inspection cover might be a good idea.

[SunEagle]

So tell me, if this breaker panel was surface mounted rather than behind some dry wall, the electrical connection and the CLX wire from the transfer switch would be exactly the same as it is now only totally exposed and that would meet code. It is designed to meet code. The wires between the transfer switch and the breaker panel are encased in metal flexible conduit one box to the other and nothing is exposed. I will be covering that hole for aesthetics but this was connected and inspected by a licensed electrician to ensure that it met code.

Fair enough. The CLX is considered a "conduit" so it should meet code.

Usually an inspector would not let you to just leave a hole in the wall for any electrical "raceway'' to come through. They want a covering or surface mounted box. Seems aesthetics is big for some people.

[HOASUNBuster]

Nice setup. Unfortunately you need to have a box mounted on the wall instead of that CLX wire just coming through a hole. Your installation would be an electrical code violation in most areas.

I hope you never have an Insurance adjustor come through because that will be flagged as a potential danger

So tell me, if this breaker panel was surface mounted rather than behind some dry wall, the electrical connection and the CLX wire from the transfer switch would be exactly the same as it is now only totally exposed and that would meet code. It is designed to meet code. The wires between the transfer switch and the breaker panel are encased in metal flexible conduit one box to the other and nothing is exposed. I will be covering that hole for aesthetics but this was connected and inspected by a licensed electrician to ensure that it met code.

[SunEagle]

Exactly right. All I have to do is flip a switch and I have quiet power for limited things. Dragging out the generator and hooking that up would take probably 20 minutes and yes, make noise.[ATTACH=CONFIG]4657[/ATTACH]

Nice setup. Unfortunately you need to have a box mounted on the wall instead of that CLX wire just coming through a hole. Your installation would be an electrical code violation in most areas.

I hope you never have an Insurance adjustor come through because that will be flagged as a potential danger

[russ]

Exactly right. All I have to do is flip a switch and I have quiet power for limited things. Dragging out the generator and hooking that up would take probably 20 minutes and yes, make noise.[ATTACH=CONFIG]4657[/ATTACH]

The generator could be automatic transfer and virtually zero noise - providing you don't go for a cheap Chinese 3,000 RPM type.

[HOASUNBuster]

But is producing sound as well as light....

Exactly right. All I have to do is flip a switch and I have quiet power for limited things. Dragging out the generator and hooking that up would take probably 20 minutes and yes, make noise.Solarwall.jpg

[inetdog]

Except the guy with a generator that did it for a fraction of the cost or trouble.

But is producing sound as well as light....

[russ]

a bad T-Storm knocking out power for an evening. I will however be the only house in my neighborhood with power

Except the guy with a generator that did it for a fraction of the cost or trouble.

[HOASUNBuster]

If you are satisfied with your arrangement then enjoy it. Unfortunately based on pure physics you are spending more running off of your batteries then your gas generator. I am only trying to help you understand the costs.

I am satisfied and I do understand the expense and the eventual replacement cost of the batteries over time. That is why I only have 4 batteries and not 14 or 24. For short durations, it provides what I need and if I need to replace them in 5+ years, so be it. If I get 1000 cycles, then it costs me about 45 cents a cycle. I spend $2.50 to $3.50 a day on electricity so to have lights and television for an evening costing $.45 I don't think is too bad. It is a trade off I have considered and am OK with. It is a total package that gives me several options. I am more of a utilitarian person and having several options to choose from depending on circumstances is good for me. I can use as much or as little as needed and I have the big guns for total home support if things warrant or just to run my DVD player and have movies from a bad T-Storm knocking out power for an evening. I will however be the only house in my neighborhood with power

[SunEagle]

Thanks. The battery backup was not meant to be economical but to provide some means of providing light and possibly run my refrigerator or furnace in an emergency. It is far too small to run the air conditioner. Storing a large amount of propane or gasoline is not what I want to do either but I can run the generator off the natural gas feed on my house and that is the way it is currently calibrated to run. I have the generator in the event of a large storm Ice damage or tornado damage to infrastructure that would normally take days or more to repair so that I can continue to run and protect my home during such an event so the economics of that part is just not so much of an issue as long as the gas is still flowing. I can easily watch 4 or 5 hours of TV/DVD's and run lights on battery at night and with a mildly sunny day, I can recover the charge to do it again and beyond what I have spent, there is no additional cost to do that. It is when I need to protect pipes from freezing with no heat or if the heat was very hot to be able to periodically run my air that the generator would come in but there is an expense with that and that is more than I pay for electricity. Generators are not known for being efficient and it makes the wheels spin on my gas meter so I don't want it running constantly simply for conservation of expenses unless it is required. I hope to be able to get up to some regular 10KWh days when fully populated and that with my conservation efforts will be half or better of my summer daily usage if I don't run my electric clothes dryer. I am getting some negative spikes on the hourly AMI data so there are times I am making more than I use and I just added 2 more panels so I hope to see more of that if the clouds will go away.

There is no question that your grid tie system is saving you money and will pay for itself. And I understand your viewpoint about running the generator. It is easy to see money going out the door when the gas meter runs but not so easy to see the same happening with your battery. To you it just sits there and provides power. What is really happening is that it is slowly dying every time you charge and discharge. Since there is no "meter" you can't see the dollars going out but they are. When the batteries finally fail they will need to be replaced at a pretty good cost.

If you are satisfied with your arrangement then enjoy it. Unfortunately based on pure physics you are spending more running off of your batteries then your gas generator. I am only trying to help you understand the costs.

[HOASUNBuster]

It is just economics and with your grid tie system I would say you have a really good start on reducing your electric bill. As for the "solar emergency backup system" I would say it is not really economical.

Thanks. The battery backup was not meant to be economical but to provide some means of providing light and possibly run my refrigerator or furnace in an emergency. It is far too small to run the air conditioner. Storing a large amount of propane or gasoline is not what I want to do either but I can run the generator off the natural gas feed on my house and that is the way it is currently calibrated to run. I have the generator in the event of a large storm Ice damage or tornado damage to infrastructure that would normally take days or more to repair so that I can continue to run and protect my home during such an event so the economics of that part is just not so much of an issue as long as the gas is still flowing. I can easily watch 4 or 5 hours of TV/DVD's and run lights on battery at night and with a mildly sunny day, I can recover the charge to do it again and beyond what I have spent, there is no additional cost to do that. It is when I need to protect pipes from freezing with no heat or if the heat was very hot to be able to periodically run my air that the generator would come in but there is an expense with that and that is more than I pay for electricity. Generators are not known for being efficient and it makes the wheels spin on my gas meter so I don't want it running constantly simply for conservation of expenses unless it is required. I hope to be able to get up to some regular 10KWh days when fully populated and that with my conservation efforts will be half or better of my summer daily usage if I don't run my electric clothes dryer. I am getting some negative spikes on the hourly AMI data so there are times I am making more than I use and I just added 2 more panels so I hope to see more of that if the clouds will go away.

[SunEagle]

SunEagle, My first effort was to have some battery backup that was not dependent on a natural resource that cost me money to actually run beyond the cost of implementation hence the solar battery, inverter setup. That grew along with my interest in the technology into a full emergency system that can run small things by battery along with a tri fuel ( gas, propane, natural gas) 7kw generator and a transfer switch to run anything else for emergencies. The next logical step was implementing something that could help pay for the initial expense of all that with a few more panels and a grid tie. I just had a 1518W peak day today and I think that is pretty good for only having panels rated at 1422 and it rained most of the day. Still trying to figure that one out but not going to spend too much time on it The sun must have been really strong and clear for a few minutes at some point. It has been something that has grown bit by bit and not a total system from the start but it all works together and meets my needs.

I understand your reasoning although if you take into consideration the cost of the Solar Charge controllers, wiring, fusing and switching hardware I would expect that you can run a propane generator for a real long time. Now if you have a lot of power outages then at some point your "fuel" costs may exceed the cost of all that hardware.

I chose to build a small solar battery system with the idea of having "free" power after a hurricane took down our normal power. After spending a lot of money (~$2500) for the batteries, panels, CC, combiner box, inverter, etc. I found that my system can put out about 600 to 800 watt hours a day without hurting the batteries which is not really much. That $2500 could have been better spent toward an efficient generator that could run my whole house. Propane is relatively cheap and you can store quite a bit in a 100 gal tank.

It is just economics and with your grid tie system I would say you have a really good start on reducing your electric bill. As for the "solar emergency backup system" I would say it is not really economical.

[HOASUNBuster]

Cloud edge effect - momentary and meaningless.

Ahh, thanks for bursting my bubble Went and read up on that phenomenon and that is nice to know about in designing systems. Good to know about.