Remove Tiles on RooF?

[Volusiano]

Glad to hear you got it all fixed up! Did you have to pay for the new shingles or did they do all that for free as part of the repair?

I get it that real clay tiles are more prone to breaking when walked on, so replacing them with shingles in the area where the panels are may help may it easier to walk around and install the panels without worrying about breaking the clay tiles. But that's the ONLY value I see in switching out tiles for shingles. And that's to make it easier for the installer to walk around and do their jobs without worrying about breaking the tiles, but at your expense because you're the one who's paying to switch out the tiles for the shingles.

There's no value in switching to shingles from the perspective of making the installation more leak-proof.

Proper flashing of the underlayment and/or of the tiles around the posts, like as seen in this video , is the solution to fix the leak. Not switching out tiles for shingles.

If in the process of switching to shingles, they redo the flashing properly to fix the leak, then that's fine. But they can also redo the flashing properly with the tiles just the same to fix the leak.

[Ward L]

Hopefully complete with no leaks

They started on December 4th to fix my leaking clay tile roof under the solar panels. They removed all the tiles under and around the panels. They removed all the solar panels. They put down a new composition roof in the area of the solar panels. They installed a new rail support system for composition shingles and connected up the panels. They finished today, Dec 29th. I missed out on 25 days of solar generation which is not really a big deal. There were parts, rain and wind delays. While I wish it never happened, I think the installer did a great job of taking care of the roof leak. My SCE bill was projected to be $56 and I wonder how that will change now that my system is online again. I now have a composition shingle pathway I can get up to my solar panels to do maintenance or clean them. It was a good time to take them out of service in December which is probably the lowest power generation month I have. For my two cents, if you have REAL clay tiles, plan to remove them under and around your new solar panels. Happy New Year!

[Ward L]

Spot On

SoCalsolar is pretty much right on the mark. The clay tile is a good weather barrier, but the tar paper or felt underneath is the real WATER barrier. In response to an earlier question about the water running off to the side of the asphalt shingles, they put flashing up to keep the water on the composition shingles. Modern day clay tile roofs have felt or tar paper down underneath the tiles to prevent leaks. If we are voting, I vote if you have a real clay tile roof (of the very easy to break when walked on variety) and considering solar panels, plan on removing the clay tiles under the panels and install composition shingles. That is my vote and I'm sticking to it.....

[SoCalsolar]

It means I

It means I have experience with the solar market in Southern California and enjoy seeing people go solar in the way which suits them best. For most people this means not going solar but for those who do take the plunge it's nice to not have roof leaks because some installer cut a corner that shouldn't be cut. I'm not dogmatic about solar but there are best practices and minimum standards as there are in any industry.

[J.P.M.]

I have been in and around the business little over 5 years and I have lots of friends in the business.

So it might be safe to say you and those friends have skin in the game ?

[SoCalsolar]

been in and around

I have been in and around the business little over 5 years and I have lots of friends in the business.

[J.P.M.]

This is a legit method of installation and should have been done the first time they installed. I wondered about that low price of your installation, if I am remembering correctly. This is an 11kW I believe? It is easy to tell the difference between a clay roof tile and concrete tile. Anyone with any type of experience should be able to do so. The easiest way is Clay tiles are smooth concrete tiles look porous and not smooth. The comp under method is proper for installation on a clay roof if you want to avoid leaks. Because concrete is porous it is not water proof by itself it is great for shedding water but your water tight barrier on your home is the paper under your tile or comp shingles. This paper ought to be replaced on a south facing roof about every twenty years or so. The comp under on a clay roof it should be used every time due to breakage of the tiles. Most clay tile roofs are so brittle it is very risky to install to install on them without improving the underlayment as Ward now knows. Using this method on a concrete roof is ok a bit over kill in my estimation. Ward is in CA we don't have that much weather here. Many people last week found out that there roof leaks to because of shoddy installations. It was the first significant rain we have had in about two years. This method may not be suited in other areas ot the country with different weather. The proper roofing type varies by region usually dependent on the weather. The comp under works well and extends outward from the array a number of feet ideally from the peak to the ridge to the gutter. Placing the tiles around the panels allows them to continue to shed water. The issue I think Ward ought to be investigating is where the water made entry to his home. This should be visible from your attic. Is it from a penetration made from your solar or some other spot?

Are you a solar vendor ?

[SoCalsolar]

This is a legit method of installation

This is a legit method of installation and should have been done the first time they installed. I wondered about that low price of your installation, if I am remembering correctly. This is an 11kW I believe? It is easy to tell the difference between a clay roof tile and concrete tile. Anyone with any type of experience should be able to do so. The easiest way is Clay tiles are smooth concrete tiles look porous and not smooth. The comp under method is proper for installation on a clay roof if you want to avoid leaks. Because concrete is porous it is not water proof by itself it is great for shedding water but your water tight barrier on your home is the paper under your tile or comp shingles. This paper ought to be replaced on a south facing roof about every twenty years or so. The comp under on a clay roof it should be used every time due to breakage of the tiles. Most clay tile roofs are so brittle it is very risky to install to install on them without improving the underlayment as Ward now knows. Using this method on a concrete roof is ok a bit over kill in my estimation. Ward is in CA we don't have that much weather here. Many people last week found out that there roof leaks to because of shoddy installations. It was the first significant rain we have had in about two years. This method may not be suited in other areas ot the country with different weather. The proper roofing type varies by region usually dependent on the weather. The comp under works well and extends outward from the array a number of feet ideally from the peak to the ridge to the gutter. Placing the tiles around the panels allows them to continue to shed water. The issue I think Ward ought to be investigating is where the water made entry to his home. This should be visible from your attic. Is it from a penetration made from your solar or some other spot?

[CA_Tom]

The asphalt shingles go all the way to the rain gutters.

To the left and right as well as down?
If the asphalt shingles don't go to the left and right, what keeps the water on those shingles from spreading out as it runs downhilll? (spreading out, AND going under those clay tiles and onto the plywood.

To put it another way, if you took a garden hose and put it at any point on that roof, dropping to the roof from 2-3' high (causing some minor splashing), would all the water make it to the gutters (and not under the tiles?)
If the answer is no, then it's not acceptable IMO.

[Ward L]

New Asphalt Shingles

The asphalt shingles go all the way to the rain gutters. The shingles are the same color as the clay tiles. The area where the panels are located is almost impossible to see. No one will be able to look at the roof from the street or yard and detect there are asphalt shingles under the panels.

The next pending crisis is a storm is blowing in this Thursday night with 50 MPH winds predicted and a lot of rain. They have temporarily stored the panels on the roof. The panels are not secured! The panels won't be there Friday morning! I have a call into the installer.....

[J.P.M.]

As I have said, I have CLAY TILES and they break when walked on. It is only a matter of time walking on clay tiles even if you walk in the right place before the break. I think the sturdy cement tiles are fine. I am providing a path of asphalt shingles to access the roof and panels to clean the panels or service them.

Any brittle tile will break if walked on carelessly, clay, cement or other. Clay may be a bit more fragile is all. Best advice: stay off the roof - it's not a place meant for foot traffic. After that, know that walking on a brittle roof is not like a walk in the park. Hands and knees movement helps spread the load some. 2 sheets of plywood can be used on non windy days WITH CARE TO AVOID SLIPPAGE.

I'd go back to the point about containing rainwater and the dirt/stuff that goes with it to not get UNDER the remaining clay tiles. Maybe I'm more full of B.S. than already exhibited, but providing, in effect, an invitation for water/crap ingress under the remaining clay tiles seems like a planted problem waiting to sprout to me. Just my $.02.

[CA_Tom]

As I have said, I have CLAY TILES and they break when walked on. It is only a matter of time walking on clay tiles even if you walk in the right place before the break. I think the sturdy cement tiles are fine. I am providing a path of asphalt shingles to access the roof and panels to clean the panels or service them.

So when rain falls on that asphalt shingle path, is it going to be well contained to that path?
Or is it going to spread out to go underneath those tiles, causing the plywood under those tiles to deteriorate? (and hopefully it's plywood and not OSB in that case)

I agree - clay tiles break pretty easily.
But I wouldn't put an asphalt shingle path - I'd just stay off the roof.
I used to have a house with clay tiles - and we had broken tiles replaced by a competent roofer. He did a number of roofs in the development - 5 tiles here, 1 there, 3 on the next, etc. I don't recall how much it was, but wasn't too bad since it was multiple roofs at the same time. And since they were competent, they could replace the tile without breaking more. (or maybe what they did was fix 5, and in the process break one near the edge, and have to fix that gratis)

[Ward L]

Hello?

As I have said, I have CLAY TILES and they break when walked on. It is only a matter of time walking on clay tiles even if you walk in the right place before the break. I think the sturdy cement tiles are fine. I am providing a path of asphalt shingles to access the roof and panels to clean the panels or service them.

[russ]

IMO the root cause of the leak is the installer did not have people with roofing experience install the panels over the clay tiles. An unqualified installer

I still think the clay tiles are a fashion statement and not the best choice for roofing. As was pointed out - today tiles are generally cement with a very long life - far better than other roofs

There are other types of tile looking roofs that would be better suited.

Personal taste - not fact - Here all sloped roofs are tile

[Volusiano]

I still think the clay tiles are a fashion statement and not the best choice for roofing. If you are content to NEVER walk on your roof, it would be fine. There are other types of tile looking roofs that would be better suited.

I think most modern tiles are now cement and not clay, and you can't really easily tell them apart. So cement tiles are not susceptible to breaking as easily, although they can still break if you're not careful and don't know how to walk them on the right places. I don't think they're just a fashion statement, they truly do last a lot longer than shingles and that's part of the reason why they're used.

IMO if you have the clay tiles I have, plan on removing them and installing asphalt shingle tiles under the panels.

I still don't see the value in doing this. Whether you have tiles or asphalt shingles under the panels, you still are going to have posts sticking out either way to support the panels, and you're going to need to install flashings around these posts to keep the water out. So replacing tiles with shingles under the panels is an unnecessary expense and doesn't help make your roof any more leak proof. So why would you care whether it's tiles or shingles under the panels?

Replacing tiles with shingles outside/around the panel area so you can walk around safely for cleaning makes more sense to me for that reason, assuming the HOA lets you.