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Trouble ediiting
Hi
I had trouble editing so just post again.
The definition of a trickle charger
That Shell panel does a bit more than this.
The end for me on this.Leave a comment:
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I disagree on that Shell panel being a trickle charger...ok it is not going to do much more than that with that 100Ah battery (and yes I did read it and I KNOW they are very specific for a reason, I am not advocating using THAT panel for anything...period, it was just a link to prove the point on the terminology...if some one wants THAT panel, then follow the instructions for THAT).
Shell calls it a self regulating panel (and also refrers to trickle chargers as well), so that is good enough for me.
I would not use my 5 watt panel to charge ANY battery, not even a small AGM (I use other panels for that), for charging AA batteries though, it has been invaluable to me and in fact I consider it to be the best value thing I have EVER purchased ...and I did pay a LOT more ten years ago for it that I would today.
It is not like I am going to charge AA batteries with my 50 watt or 200 watt or what have you panels and like wise will not charge larger batteries with my 5 watt one.
Again and finally, it is just a name.....I actually think calling a panel "self regulating" as a term is a bit misleading but that IS what such panels are called.
I think I am done on this, there ARE self regulating panels, a 5 watt panel is great for charging AA batteries (not a 200000AH AGM battery) but ONLY if you are using a lower input to what you otherwise would and ONLY if you know what you are doing and at your own risk.Leave a comment:
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You are 100% correct. Every solar panel is self regulating because they are current sources a point which I do no think you have grasped yet. A typical 100 watt panel made for 12 volt battery systems has a Voc of 22 volts and a Isc of 7 amps.
OK this is where you stepped into a big pile of it and where I think you do not understand what a current source is. The Shell panel you mention for example is a 50 watt panel made with 33 cells. It specifically says to be used on a 12 Volt 100 AH battery with a daily load. Please read it and explain why it is so specific
Here is your clue. A 50 watt panel with 33 cells can only generate 3 amps of current. When applied to a 100 AH battery is a C/33 charge current. If you connected that panel to a 50% discharged battery it would take roughly 5 days to fully recharge the battery assuming the battery had no load on it. That by definition as I explained earlier is a TRICKLE CHARGER. To properly charge that same 12 volt 100 AH battery would require a 160 watt panel with a MPPT charge controller, or a 220 watt panel with a PWM charge controller. To recharge that same battery at 50% would only require 1 day with a light load, not 5 painful days without a load.
Again that is not a self regulating panel. It is just an over priced Marketing Term for a piece of junk. a 5 watt, 12 volt panel generates .3 amps. Car batteries are anywhere from 60 to 100 AH. So a .3 amp current supply is a C/200 to C/333 charge rate. There is no way in Hell that could even possible charge a car battery. A Trickle Charge is around C/100. So that 5 watt panel is not even a TINKLE CHARGER. A 50% discharged 60 AH battery would take roughly 1 month to charge up assuming the battery does not have a self discharge rate. A flooded lead acid battery has a 10%/Month Self Discharge rate. The 5 watt panel can barely keep up with the Self Discharge rate of a 60 AH battery. It is a worthless piece of crap only worth $5. How much did you pay for it?Leave a comment:
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Hi
I agree on saying just because someone on the internet says something it does not make it true.
In this case....it IS however wrong to say that self regulating solar panels do not exist.
They DO, it is just the name given to panels designed power things directly and made to work on a lower voltage than normal panels...often voltages below about 15 volts it seems and mostly made by using fewer cells than a normal 12 volt panel.
if your argument is that using it is not safe, fine, argue that but to say they do not exist just puts questions back at you.
Shell made that panel in the link above and refer to that as self regulating (and it was designed for battery charging....not just trickle charging). That is a 50 watt panel model SM50-H and it typically puts out 14.5 volts.
Kyocera make self regulating panels (model Kc35 is a 15 volt 35 watt panel.)
Some self regulating panels are sold with a 12 volt cigarette plug to plug 12 volt things in directly to the panel (like my 5 watt panel which as I said, came with both a 12 volt cigarette plug and a set of alligator clips).
The Go power self regulating panels are an example of that.
Most self regulating panels though are less than 5 watts I think.
Those G&P panels linked to earlier are the first I have seen at larger sizes.
I want a larger self regulating panle to use for cooking without batteries using a single solar panel and other purely resistive loads....funny thing is i would never use a self regulating solar panel of size to charge a battery without a regulator even if it was possible.
Using a small panel with a lower power input than from mains or a car to charge AA batteries in a commercially sold charger designed for a 12 volt power source?? no problem, works well and I can take it anywhere....though again, if you do it it is at your own risk and PLEASE make sure the panel power is not greater than the normal source.Leave a comment:
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Just because someone says the moon is made of green cheese, does not mean it's true.
Just because some markerter slaps a SELF-REGULATING sticker on a product that has no regulation capability (it's just a panel, not a panel with a charge controller) does not mean it is accurate or adviseable to use.
If you match a tiny panel to a battery, like a spike landscape light, that can work, but it has to be designed to limit the power to the batteries. While I am able to to that design and caculation myself, it's not worth it, as anyone who has solar landscape lights finds out after a couple winter months.Leave a comment:
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I assume you are talking about this:
OK I read exactly what you are talking about, and like I said earlier you can connect a panel directly to a battery when certain conditions exist, and that is exactly what Shell is telling you. The panels are not self regulating in the sense you are speaking of. They give two examples.
! is as I stated earlier used strictly for a trickle charger. Panels are current sources, not voltage. Providing you select a panel where Imp is roughly C/100 you can connect it directly to a battery using a diode.
The second application is a very specific installation again using the panels characteristic Isc ability being a current source. They make a special 50 watt panel with only 33 cells. It has to be connected to a 12 volt 100 AH or larger battery where there is a constant load on the. A 33 cell panel has an open circuit voltage of 16.5 volts and a Imp of 3 amps or C/33 to a 100 AH battery. It will work but is an extremely low rate of charge of not more than a trickle charge.Leave a comment:
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Here is an example of something that does not exist.
Shell apparently believe self regulating panels exist...in fact they thought they made them....
See pages 3 and 11
I only post this as an example of what they are...I just found this page now when googling "self regulating solar panels"....the linked article is for much bigger panels and batteires than I am talking about.Leave a comment:
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I did not invent the term!
Lots of panels are sold as "self regulating"
Google it or not...its JUST a term.
it just means panels that can be used directly
pretty much because the voltage is down to a level that should be fine for 12 volt things.
Mostly made by using fewer cells.
As I said, I would NOT use a panel with excessive amps. and I said I would not use a 10 watt panel with 2 or 4 battery AA charger (8 AA batteries and if you know what you are doing, you might well find a way of doing it).
My 5 watt panel is using a commercially sold AA charger and the input is less from the panel than it would from either a car cigarette socket or a mains charger even in full sun, let alone what it gets most of the time....when I DO use it with a mains charger the batteries get a LOT hotter than they do in the same charger from the solar panel.
I also said do this at your own risk.
I am not advocating hooking up a 200 watt panel to wire accross a single AA battery!
Edit
if you want me to say do this only if you know what you are doing, fine! i will.Leave a comment:
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There is no such thing as a self regulating panel. Solar panels are current sources not voltage.
Now with that said it is entirely possible to connect a panel to a battery directly and leave it on there without doing any harm if you know what you are doing.
The key to doing so is that the battery AH capacity and panel current are matched up to do so with the appropriate voltage of the panel being somewhat higher than the battery it is connected too. The trick is the panel maximum current must be about C/100 or less where C = the AH capacity of the battery. So for example if you had a 100 AH 12 volt battery you can connect a 12 volt 15 watt or less panel directly to it without doing any real harm, unless it just left to sit for very long periods of time. What you are effectively doing is making a trickle charger.
Now with that said the panel would be worthless for any real charging as it is not capable of supplying any real meaningful charge current. It can only keep a fully charged battery fully charged. Piss poor way to go about it, but it can be done. In fact if you search the web you can find just such panels made for cars left to be parked for long periods of time that plug into the cigar lighter socket of about 5 to 15 watts. .Leave a comment:
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OK, all funning aside, THERE ARE NO "SELF-REGULATING" panels.
Rechargeable batteries need to have a controlled recharge. Hooking up to a panel, and hoping for the best, really means you don't have your face near the batteries when they blow. Sometimes they just vent, sometimes the vent sticks and the cells swell up, and leak, and rarely, they go bang.
So do us all a favor, and give some credence to long term posters, and less to newer, unproven members when weighing advice.
We moderators, need to at least, give "safe & sane" and mostly code compliant advice. I can say to do what 2 of us do, use a panel, with a 12V charge controller, and a commercial AA battery charger to safely recharge the batteries.
Mike
Maha C401 aa/aaa Charger 12vdc input, universal wall wart powersupply.Leave a comment:
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not sure on how to go about that...BUT
I'm not sure about that but I have a bunch of rechargeable Eneloops AA &AAA. They come with a 110 charger, I just charge my big 12v battery with 120watt panel then use a small 400watt inverter to charge them. Just make sure you charge them slow 4-6hours, Keep to ohms law and you'll be fine. Some how reduce your charging to 500 or less mamps. 300ma for about 6hrs. Sounds like a fun project.Leave a comment:
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Self regulating panel
Hi
Just means a panel that does not need a regulator as the voltage
is only a little above 12 volts instead of the 17 or 18 or so that most are.
There are lots of small panels around 5 watts or less that are self regulating.
I would think that a panel around 14 or 15 volts should be ok to plug a AA charger into....depending on the amps.
Some of those amorphous roll up type panels seem to be sold as self regulating.
OT I was looking for a much larger self regulating panel for directly powering things for some projects but could not any and got a regular panel and found I did not need it self regulating....after that I found these.
Might be ok for smaller ones but for using in the hot Australian sun, I would think they might be ok to start but get too hot and lose power. (and i could not get an direct answer from an Ebay seller of them).
Would be good in colder climates I would think.
I guess I should stick to normal panels and use a longer lead and maybe try and use voltage drop to my advantage....for AA charging though some of these or similar might be ok???
I just know i am happy with my 10 year old 5 watt amorphous panel plugged directly into a AA charger.Leave a comment:
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