caption of the short bus needs water heater help

[SunEagle]

I don't think so

It is funny that it shows up on my list of New Topics but I can't make it go away.

[Mike90250]

Was this thread closed?

I don't think so

[SunEagle]

Was this thread closed?

[charles2,david000k]

You guys are right it is a waste of time and money. Thank you for clarifying.

[Living Large]

you make a good point I do jump around alot when I think. My home is ready for final inspection if I remove all the DC. All my AC wiring is done and up running. Everything I know came from the book.
(BLACK&DECKER The Complete guide to wiring 5th Edition Current with 2011-2013 Electrical codes)

I would like to replace both elements but with the length of wire and Awg it would take just does not seem practical I guess would be the word for it. So if I can just do the lower to keep the upper from kicking on during the day would be nice. But I still have the problem of transporting 24V @ 25A over a 35ft wire.
This is the the instruction video "I THINK" for installing the element. https://youtu.be/_s5h4Gs07fc Mine is the one without the ajustable dial. I have asked the manufacturer to send me a wiring diagram through my e-mail. But is how he explains the insulation correct?

HOW will you heat sufficiently water with 600 Watts as a "dump load"? Unless your water heater is 8 gallons, I don't see it happening. You convert your water heater to DC, then you have to heat with just DC. A dump load is for excess energy. From what you have posted, you have none. You appear to be worried about a minor detail like electrocution, instead of designing a system that is capable of doing a defined task. As funny as it sounds, the latter is more important in the beginning. I'm jumping off the short bus, like Mannix.

[Bala]

you make a good point I do jump around alot when I think. My home is ready for final inspection if I remove all the DC. All my AC wiring is done and up running. Everything I know came from the book.
(BLACK&DECKER The Complete guide to wiring 5th Edition Current with 2011-2013 Electrical codes)

I would like to replace both elements but with the length of wire and Awg it would take just does not seem practical I guess would be the word for it. So if I can just do the lower to keep the upper from kicking on during the day would be nice. But I still have the problem of transporting 24V @ 25A over a 35ft wire.
This is the the instruction video "I THINK" for installing the element. https://youtu.be/_s5h4Gs07fc Mine is the one without the ajustable dial. I have asked the manufacturer to send me a wiring diagram through my e-mail. But is how he explains the insulation correct?

Your wasting your time and money. The element is of some use with a wind or hydro system that uses a dump load anyway.

With your sized solar system, and unknown battery size/quality, there is no way you are going to have enough spare? power for enough hrs during the day to heat any significant amount of water.

[charles2,david000k]

The reason nobody is commenting is probably they don't understand your needs - I don't. The people here are very knowledgeable, but they generally won't spend time on something that is not defined, won't be done to code, etc etc. If I understand it, you are looking at replacing one 4500W element with a 600W element, and disconnecting the other. If you do that, how will you get the water heated, and what will power it? You said in another thread that you can use 90+kwh per day, but here your house sounds like it isn't completed yet.

How are you going to run your house for a month with the grid down, with a grid-tied solar system?

you make a good point I do jump around alot when I think. My home is ready for final inspection if I remove all the DC. All my AC wiring is done and up running. Everything I know came from the book.
(BLACK&DECKER The Complete guide to wiring 5th Edition Current with 2011-2013 Electrical codes)

I would like to replace both elements but with the length of wire and Awg it would take just does not seem practical I guess would be the word for it. So if I can just do the lower to keep the upper from kicking on during the day would be nice. But I still have the problem of transporting 24V @ 25A over a 35ft wire.
This is the the instruction video "I THINK" for installing the element. https://youtu.be/_s5h4Gs07fc Mine is the one without the ajustable dial. I have asked the manufacturer to send me a wiring diagram through my e-mail. But is how he explains the insulation correct?

[Living Large]

The overall point though is to be able to run my stuff without AC power incase the power goes out and it does here we get freezing fog, ice storms, and power was out for a month last year two weeks the year before. This has been our warmest winter in a while. and just overall it's a 4,500 watt water heater.

I plan on running a 12AWG wire from the dump load to water heater tomorrow and seeing what happens. all else fails : I loss a water heater.
I would like to buy a 2k sun grid tie inverter but no one will tell me if they perform well or not but sun grid tie is in my price range.

The reason nobody is commenting is probably they don't understand your needs - I don't. The people here are very knowledgeable, but they generally won't spend time on something that is not defined, won't be done to code, etc etc. If I understand it, you are looking at replacing one 4500W element with a 600W element, and disconnecting the other. If you do that, how will you get the water heated, and what will power it? You said in another thread that you can use 90+kwh per day, but here your house sounds like it isn't completed yet.

How are you going to run your house for a month with the grid down, with a grid-tied solar system?

[charles2,david000k]

I am not understanding what your overall goal is, and why you are focusing on the DWH. Why not just pump whatever you can back into the grid, and forget about individual loads? If you convert the DWH to 24V, then you need a dedicated energy source to run it.

Nobody wants to die peeing or taking a shower. How embarrassing.

My home has not been finalized yet! I passed my temp and rough-in on my own but the inspector has failed me on dumb stuff I should of passed for like my rough-in he failed me because my wires out my boxes were 12 inches instead of 6 or 7 I wanted pull room. He failed my temporary because the place the pole was set was too wet and he knew I had no say so of where that pole went the power company here does. I have a NEC hand book that goes over AC installation pretty well. another thing he wanted to pick at was I had a room with 7 outlet on one drop and the light on a separate drop and he made me bring in another drop to divide up the 7 outlet when I could of just taken the drop for the light and put 3 outlets on it and it still would have been fine. every outlet in my kitchen is gfci when only two are within 3 feet of water. The overall point though is to be able to run my stuff without AC power incase the power goes out and it does here we get freezing fog, ice storms, and power was out for a month last year two weeks the year before. This has been our warmest winter in a while. and just overall it's a 4,500 watt water heater.

I plan on running a 12AWG wire from the dump load to water heater tomorrow and seeing what happens. all else fails I loss a water heater.
I would like to buy a 2k sun grid tie inverter but no one will tell me if they perform well or not but sun grid tie is in my price range.

[Living Large]

All the information I am finding keeps telling me to just disconnect the lower element and wire nut it off then hook DC directly into the factory element from dump load or battery. I don't want to die while taking a shower or peeing in the toilet.

I am not understanding what your overall goal is, and why you are focusing on the DWH. Why not just pump whatever you can back into the grid, and forget about individual loads? If you convert the DWH to 24V, then you need a dedicated energy source to run it.

Nobody wants to die peeing or taking a shower. How embarrassing.

[charles2,david000k]

All the information I am finding keeps telling me to just disconnect the lower element and wire nut it off then hook DC directly into the factory element from dump load or battery. I don't want to die while taking a shower or peeing in the toilet.

[Living Large]

I don't think there is a way to do this is there?

In a separate thread, within the past hour, you posted some equipment that you have. If I read it right, you have a tremendous daily use, and sometimes use 8kwh in one hour (!). You are considering a small grid-tie system to offset your bills.

I'm not sure how this DWH project and possible conversion fits into this scenario. I don't know a lot about grid-tie, but it seems to me that with grid-tie you would want to leave the DWH as is. You could dedicate a 2kw panel to DWH only and still not make enough heat to do that one job, depending on how much HW you use.

You really need to start at square one - do an audit to figure out how much each item uses per day and reduce your current consumption as much as possible.

[charles2,david000k]

Caption, my Caption. You'll lose about 4% of the voltage at 50A in line loss if you go DC - but you'd better check the existing thermostat to see if it can handle 50A, assuming both elements can run simultaneously (my DWH only allows one element active at a time). Good luck with this project - I am amazed, in a word, at the thought of running a DWH from a bridge rectifier. I don't believe you will need it.

I don't think there is a way to do this is there?

[Living Large]

What is going to have less of a power lose?

1. bridge rectifier
2. transformer
3. 40ft run of 4 AWG from bank to water heater carrying 24V @ 50A.

4 AWG is going to be a real pain to wire due to space and size of the wire I am not saying it can't be done but I would like to pull the old wire directly out the top of the water heater and run the new wire directly down the old path of the old wire to the heating elements and thermostat.

Now if I was to use a bridge rectifier or transformer I could use the wire that is already in place with out a new 40ft run across the house but there are conversion loses going from DC to AC then back to DC and would still need to change the internal wiring on the water heat.

I hate my inlaws sometimes 2 hours sleep in 72 hours makes me grumpy day and night have become one big blur. I am sorry if I missed something but I am going to bed.

Caption, my Caption. You'll lose about 4% of the voltage at 50A in line loss if you go DC - but you'd better check the existing thermostat to see if it can handle 50A, assuming both elements can run simultaneously (my DWH only allows one element active at a time). Good luck with this project - I am amazed, in a word, at the thought of running a DWH from a bridge rectifier. I don't believe you will need it.

[charles2,david000k]

What is going to have less of a power lose?

1. bridge rectifier
2. transformer
3. 40ft run of 4 AWG from bank to water heater carrying 24V @ 50A.

4 AWG is going to be a real pain to wire due to space and size of the wire I am not saying it can't be done but I would like to pull the old wire directly out the top of the water heater and run the new wire directly down the old path of the old wire to the heating elements and thermostat.

Now if I was to use a bridge rectifier or transformer I could use the wire that is already in place with out a new 40ft run across the house but there are conversion loses going from DC to AC then back to DC and would still need to change the internal wiring on the water heat.

I hate my inlaws sometimes 2 hours sleep in 72 hours makes me grumpy day and night have become one big blur. I am sorry if I missed something but I am going to bed.