Is solar green?

[inetdog]

Without a doubt we humans will ruin the earth eventually, we just don't know when.

We will only ruin the earth from the point of view of supporting human life with the quality to which we have become accustomed (poor as that is in much of the world.)
We could certainly trigger a mass extinction, and by dithering sufficiently humans could end up being part of that extinction, but the planet will remain.

[azdave]

Fancy carbon fiber bicycles are not weapons, they give you nice legs.

If the goal of some bike riders is to be healthy and excercise why do they use those modern, super-light, high-efficiency CF bikes anyway? My old Schwinn Continental 10-speed will build muscles way faster than a modern lightweight CF bike.

I buy old stuff all the time and go to great effort to buy used and re-use it before buying something new. That's my small contribution to the earth. I try not to be the first in line for the latest do-dad those brain-washed consumers think they must own. If someone has already used earth's resources to build a widget then better to keep using that widget than to bury it at the landfill and make another. Am I saving the earth? Of course not...just slowing down its demise very immeasurably.

Without a doubt we humans will ruin the earth eventually, we just don't know when.

[nomadh]

Some hippie types were really into self sufficiency and all the hard work that entails but I think its become pretty obvious that for most hippies its about being lazy. Lazy about work and what it takes to keep themselves fed and sheltered. Lazy about what it takes for over head to keep people safe and a country safe. Lazy about what the real threats to life and freedom are. And at the pinnacle of it all, lazy thinking.

They did make so great music though

[SunEagle]

To bring things back to earth, just remember that "green" can be nothing more than a sales demographic, unless you do it for other reasons or *combine* it with the desire to be green.

Being solely green on it's own right means doing some homework for the long-term considering the *entire life cycle* of manufacturing, distribution, usage, replacement, and of course recycling at the end.

The simplest thing is recognizing that one designs a solar system to replace the batteries when they eventually wear out multiple times. Many green newcomers don't realize this.

Are the green solutions merely *moving* the problem from one area to another? Lead-acid based EV'ers from decades ago recognized this early on - will the local charging infrastructure just move the pollution to the coal-generating plant in another state from which the energy now comes from?

Are the manufacturer's eating their own dog-food? That is, say for example in the battery arena, are they using a local solar system to charge local batteries to deliver the initialization or "first charge" to their customer?

Do the manufacturers of panels, batteries, solar setups and the like actually utilize solar themselves in their factories?

Do all the engineers that work at such places drive an Expedition with only one person in it to work each day?

It is questions like these where YOU can make a difference in business and the world, if you consider the total life-cycle of the product to the very end, and not just the initial sales-target figures.

+1. Great analogy on how much being "green" is.

[PNjunction]

I feel the anachronism in me, like I have old values of defending the planet from the cyborg wannabe monkeys we act like. Alot of times I think I should just be happy and go to college to help build spaceships.

To bring things back to earth, just remember that "green" can be nothing more than a sales demographic, unless you do it for other reasons or *combine* it with the desire to be green.

Being solely green on it's own right means doing some homework for the long-term considering the *entire life cycle* of manufacturing, distribution, usage, replacement, and of course recycling at the end.

The simplest thing is recognizing that one designs a solar system to replace the batteries when they eventually wear out multiple times. Many green newcomers don't realize this.

Are the green solutions merely *moving* the problem from one area to another? Lead-acid based EV'ers from decades ago recognized this early on - will the local charging infrastructure just move the pollution to the coal-generating plant in another state from which the energy now comes from?

Are the manufacturer's eating their own dog-food? That is, say for example in the battery arena, are they using a local solar system to charge local batteries to deliver the initialization or "first charge" to their customer?

Do the manufacturers of panels, batteries, solar setups and the like actually utilize solar themselves in their factories?

Do all the engineers that work at such places drive an Expedition with only one person in it to work each day?

It is questions like these where YOU can make a difference in business and the world, if you consider the total life-cycle of the product to the very end, and not just the initial sales-target figures.

[albert436]

[requir]

I think that maybe it's not 100% green, it's more ecological way to produce energy, thus it can be one more step to have our world going back to wild nature side.

[J.P.M.]

"Green" comes in a lot of shades. Yes, people are fundamentally selfish - very few of us are going to achieve sustainability where they are a greater benefit to the world than what they consume. I've tried going minimalist and found that while I had a very small "footprint", I wasn't much good for anything either. On the other hand you have those (I have tried this too) that drive Hummers, eat Big Macs, travel all over, have superbowl parties, etc, etc. Somewhere in the middle, I try to find a net productive balance and being solar "pusher" is the best somewhere I've found.
While we've installed solar systems for the mega consumer type (for all I know they invented sliced bread) and sometimes shake my head, we also do a lot of installs for people that are amazingly conservative in their lifestyle - they all find solar to be "green". Even for the "greenwashers", they are doing a good thing to help promote solar as being part of a more ecological energy solution, than just burning the low hanging, dirty, non-renewable fruit.
On the whole, I think we're past the tipping point already - there will be a day of reckoning for our modern consumer era. No matter how green you or I or all of us try to be, it won't be enough.

Yea, IMO, we're pretty much screwed. I mostly minimize contact to minimize deterioration, bloviate around here, watch entropy govern all and watch the show. Not my money/house/life/business/whatever.

Have a nice day.

[solarix]

"Green" comes in a lot of shades. Yes, people are fundamentally selfish - very few of us are going to achieve sustainability where they are a greater benefit to the world than what they consume. I've tried going minimalist and found that while I had a very small "footprint", I wasn't much good for anything either. On the other hand you have those (I have tried this too) that drive Hummers, eat Big Macs, travel all over, have superbowl parties, etc, etc. Somewhere in the middle, I try to find a net productive balance and being solar "pusher" is the best somewhere I've found.
While we've installed solar systems for the mega consumer type (for all I know they invented sliced bread) and sometimes shake my head, we also do a lot of installs for people that are amazingly conservative in their lifestyle - they all find solar to be "green". Even for the "greenwashers", they are doing a good thing to help promote solar as being part of a more ecological energy solution, than just burning the low hanging, dirty, non-renewable fruit.
On the whole, I think we're past the tipping point already - there will be a day of reckoning for our modern consumer era. No matter how green you or I or all of us try to be, it won't be enough.

[J.P.M.]

The greenest possible action any one person can take by definition is suicide, but let's be real. We all breath the earth's precious air and drink it's water and pollute it, no choice in that. For me, I'm pretty damn interested in living, so I'm going to do the best I can to live clean"ish", while enjoying the only thing I know I have... life. My solar panels power my electric car which brings me to my engineering job which I use to try and make the world better. I feel very good about my career. Yet it can't possibly have been good for the earth to have produced that car. I can only do so much, I'm human. I do the best I can, but I could always do better. We are all hypocrites in some way, just on a spectrum.

That's way too much philosophy for one day, I'm heading back to some good old arguments about parallel vs serial...

Pretty much +1. It dawned on me some time ago when overcome with a blinding flash of the obvious that entropy governs everything one way or another - energy, evolution, even time's arrow and societies. I enjoy the ride and try to remember the rules I learned in grammar school to get along.

[bridaus]

The greenest possible action any one person can take by definition is suicide, but let's be real. We all breath the earth's precious air and drink it's water and pollute it, no choice in that. For me, I'm pretty damn interested in living, so I'm going to do the best I can to live clean"ish", while enjoying the only thing I know I have... life. My solar panels power my electric car which brings me to my engineering job which I use to try and make the world better. I feel very good about my career. Yet it can't possibly have been good for the earth to have produced that car. I can only do so much, I'm human. I do the best I can, but I could always do better. We are all hypocrites in some way, just on a spectrum.

That's way too much philosophy for one day, I'm heading back to some good old arguments about parallel vs serial...

[J.P.M.]

Sounds like you guys are getting offended like I'm ragging on your careers. Now I'm asking how is it, how did training in a college for a professional career go for you, how do you feel about it?

Speaking only for myself, I'm not the least bit offended. I believe I've been through a similar mind set and phase you seem to be in. I remember it fondly, and smile. Thank you for the trip in the way back machine.

A copy of an epitaph I once saw comes to mind: " Once I was were you are. Soon you'll be where I am."

Or, from a poster I had on my wall when I was about 25 or so: "Go placidly amid the noise and haste and remember what peace there may be in silence."

A respectful suggestion: Keep in mind that neither you, I, nor anyone else have the market cornered on concern for the planet or its occupants.

Good luck. I hope you find peace.

[copymepls]

Sounds like you guys are getting offended like I'm ragging on your careers. Now I'm asking how is it, how did training in a college for a professional career go for you, how do you feel about it?

[copymepls]

I had a friend that grew alot of weed, I built him a solar system with 2 GC2 batteries intronics MPPT75HV and a 250watt 30.4v mpp monocrystalline and he just seems to want to use it to power lights to grow his weed so he could make money to pay for more parts for his van. And grow coca plants.

I won't put thrill substances in me, only sensible foods I can pick off a plant and eat so I can cycle and see how many joules I can put out with my muscles.

[Sunking]

That's just the thing I'm not on meds, just local grown food,

I bet some local grown Maui Wowie in the mix too huh?