Single room in house all off solar?

[ballison954]

Until a cheaper battery is found the only Solar PV installation that makes sense is a grid tie one.

Depending on what the POCO charges you for kWh and how big a system you install will determine your payback time. But even in places like Texas with very low POCO charges a grid tie solar system will pay for itself eventually.

Anything off grid is usually very expensive and will never pay for itself. Going off grid is a personal decision and a life style change which works for some people but not for most.

I completely agree with you here. Go grid-tie unless the NEM changes...

[Amy@altE]

Totally agree, but I'd rather oversize than undersize. I'm a big fan of the Kill-a-watt, I gave them to everyone for Xmas first year I was in the solar biz. But if people are looking for a ballpark size and don't have one yet, checking the power rating is a good start.

[SunEagle]

Good point, I'm actually writing my next training video right now, showing how to determine the power requirement of your devices. If the appliance only lists amps and volts, multiply them to get watts. Volts x amps = watts. But better yet, get a Kill-a-watt meter, especially on equipment that isn't on constantly like a fridge.

Well actually Volts x Amps = VA. Watts = VA x Power Factor. The PF is usually around 0.9 but can go down to 0.5 for some devices like a fan motor so VA does not always equal Watts.

Also that amp rating on the device might be the maximum or instantaneous on start-up. It will probably use less under normal operating conditions as well as not be continuous.

And even though the device may say 120 volts the actually voltage in the home can be between 115 to 125. So which voltage do you use to calculate the wattage?

All of these calculations can result in a much bigger presumed watt hour usage then an actual usage which will cause someone to over size their solar/battery system.

Using a meter that measures both the voltage and amperage and calculates the watts used over a period of time will be more accurate.

[Amy@altE]

I agree. You first have to determine what you actually daily watt hour usage is and then size your solar/battery system.

Unfortunately most people do not know what each electrical device really uses in "watts" because most devices only have the voltage and max amperage listed. If they used a "kill a watt" meter they can measure what the device uses in a 24 to 48 hour period and then will be able to determine their actually daily needs.

Good point, I'm actually writing my next training video right now, showing how to determine the power requirement of your devices. If the appliance only lists amps and volts, multiply them to get watts. Volts x amps = watts. But better yet, get a Kill-a-watt meter, especially on equipment that isn't on constantly like a fridge.

[SunEagle]

Google "solar load calculator" and enter the items you want to power. By creating a loads list, you can then use the off-grid calculator to determine the size of system you need. My co-worker set up his home office in CO as off-grid, it is certainly do-able, but will probably cost more than $1000. By playing with the loads list calculator, you can see what you could power within your budget.

I agree. You first have to determine what you actually daily watt hour usage is and then size your solar/battery system.

Unfortunately most people do not know what each electrical device really uses in "watts" because most devices only have the voltage and max amperage listed. If they used a "kill a watt" meter they can measure what the device uses in a 24 to 48 hour period and then will be able to determine their actually daily needs.

[Amy@altE]

Google "solar load calculator" and enter the items you want to power. By creating a loads list, you can then use the off-grid calculator to determine the size of system you need. My co-worker set up his home office in CO as off-grid, it is certainly do-able, but will probably cost more than $1000. By playing with the loads list calculator, you can see what you could power within your budget.

[SunEagle]

For a thousand dollars I could make a man cave fit for a king. A 240 watt panel, a mppt controller and at least a 100 ah agm battery. The bigger the battery the longer it'll let you operate during bad weather.

Have everything run off 12 volts, example 12 volt fridge, 12 volt led lights, 12 volt roadpro cooker, instead of corded power tools, use cordless rechargeable which will be easily charged by this system. It wont run a big screen tv or washer and dryer, but you will have the bare essentials. Having lights is the big thing, the supernight led lights are very bright and its what i have been using, 15 feet of lights for 12 dollars. You can power radios etc. You can also run a small netbook all day long. A small inverter to power small appliances that wont run on 12 volts. Too big of an inverter and it will drain your battery too fast. I have 3 inverters a 120 watt and 400 watt modified sine, and a 150 watt pure sine.

You cannot rely on the power company in worst case scenario like everyone else here or having gas to run a generator or cook. Instead of giving up or waiting for a good Samaritan to charge your cellphone or flashlight you can have unlimited power as long as the sun is shining.

And yes you can keep the battery in the basement as long as its AGM type, i sleep near my battery. And you'll probably upgrade your battery before you buy a new one. And if the battery lasts 3 years, that will at least get you through the power outage. I paid 125 for my 145 ah agm battery which I had for 2 years, it already paid for itself, even if I replaced it now its done what I bought it for and would not consider it a waste of money. I have a total of 4 agm batteries of different sizes and keep them topped off as necessary. Even though i only use one as my house battery, I dont want to be caught without a backup.

Its also fairly simple, just run the 2 wires from the solar panel into your basement, connect 2 wires into your mppt controller "pv" input, then connect the 2 wires from mppt controller "bat" to your battery. Make sure you use fuses on everything you connect to your battery. You can start small but at a minimum a 240 watt panel, that will provide you real power, more than once I had to charge a dead car battery with it, it never let me down.

People here think solar power is to run everything, which it wont but in an emergency it will give you real power, it cost money upfront but in an emergency its too late to buy the solar panel and put it together. A generator is fine but eventually it will run out of fuel. You have a good idea and should pursue it, and for your 1000 dollar budget, its more than enough to get a decent system. As you use your system, you learn what it can do and upgrade as necessary.

Not sure if a system that generates about 300 watt hours daily would run a "man cave fit for a King" but then it comes down to what electrical appliances you need to meet your creature comforts.

The problem is that a lot of people want solar power to run everything that they use today. They have no concept to the amount of watt hours used by each item and therefore decide they can still run their tv, computer, lights and coffee maker for a few bucks because in their mind solar is "free" energy. Until they are confronted with the limitations of a battery system they will continue to dream the impossible and "feel" secure with their emergency backup system.

Like you I have a few emergency power systems that I can rely on if the grid goes down for a short time, but even my solar/battery system will eventually die without the chance of getting new batteries if a SHTF event happens.

[russ]

For a thousand dollars I could make a man cave fit for a king. Some king - in a slum maybe?

you can have unlimited power as long as the sun is shining. Right - as long as the sun shines and most power failures come during good weather?

People here think solar power is to run everything, Pardon?

your 1000 dollar budget, its more than enough to get a decent system. As you use your system, you learn what it can do and upgrade as necessary.

A good way to waste 1000 dollars

[jony101]

For a thousand dollars I could make a man cave fit for a king. A 240 watt panel, a mppt controller and at least a 100 ah agm battery. The bigger the battery the longer it'll let you operate during bad weather.

Have everything run off 12 volts, example 12 volt fridge, 12 volt led lights, 12 volt roadpro cooker, instead of corded power tools, use cordless rechargeable which will be easily charged by this system. It wont run a big screen tv or washer and dryer, but you will have the bare essentials. Having lights is the big thing, the supernight led lights are very bright and its what i have been using, 15 feet of lights for 12 dollars. You can power radios etc. You can also run a small netbook all day long. A small inverter to power small appliances that wont run on 12 volts. Too big of an inverter and it will drain your battery too fast. I have 3 inverters a 120 watt and 400 watt modified sine, and a 150 watt pure sine.

You cannot rely on the power company in worst case scenario like everyone else here or having gas to run a generator or cook. Instead of giving up or waiting for a good Samaritan to charge your cellphone or flashlight you can have unlimited power as long as the sun is shining.

And yes you can keep the battery in the basement as long as its AGM type, i sleep near my battery. And you'll probably upgrade your battery before you buy a new one. And if the battery lasts 3 years, that will at least get you through the power outage. I paid 125 for my 145 ah agm battery which I had for 2 years, it already paid for itself, even if I replaced it now its done what I bought it for and would not consider it a waste of money. I have a total of 4 agm batteries of different sizes and keep them topped off as necessary. Even though i only use one as my house battery, I dont want to be caught without a backup.

Its also fairly simple, just run the 2 wires from the solar panel into your basement, connect 2 wires into your mppt controller "pv" input, then connect the 2 wires from mppt controller "bat" to your battery. Make sure you use fuses on everything you connect to your battery. You can start small but at a minimum a 240 watt panel, that will provide you real power, more than once I had to charge a dead car battery with it, it never let me down.

People here think solar power is to run everything, which it wont but in an emergency it will give you real power, it cost money upfront but in an emergency its too late to buy the solar panel and put it together. A generator is fine but eventually it will run out of fuel. You have a good idea and should pursue it, and for your 1000 dollar budget, its more than enough to get a decent system. As you use your system, you learn what it can do and upgrade as necessary.

[mschulz]

Until a cheaper battery is found the only Solar PV installation that makes sense is a grid tie one.

Depending on what the POCO charges you for kWh and how big a system you install will determine your payback time. But even in places like Texas with very low POCO charges a grid tie solar system will pay for itself eventually.

Anything off grid is usually very expensive and will never pay for itself. Going off grid is a personal decision and a life style change which works for some people but not for most.

If it were me, I would spend the $1000 on a generator noise dampening and security system. Cost you about 1/3 the cost of solar and you could run the whole house with it. Then when the SHTF no one will hear your generator, if they did, they wouldn't be able to steal it, and you don't have a bunch of panels on your roof attracting every looter in town. In SHTF you want to look like you have nothing to loose so you get passed by.

[SunEagle]

This all makes sense. Thank you all for your help and input. I guess I'll either start saving for a full house setup with a grid tie in or scrap the idea and figure something else out. Thanks again all for your help.

Until a cheaper battery is found the only Solar PV installation that makes sense is a grid tie one.

Depending on what the POCO charges you for kWh and how big a system you install will determine your payback time. But even in places like Texas with very low POCO charges a grid tie solar system will pay for itself eventually.

Anything off grid is usually very expensive and will never pay for itself. Going off grid is a personal decision and a life style change which works for some people but not for most.

[Pogi]

In short the high expense is just that the equipment (solar panels, batteries, charger, inverter, fuses, wires, hardware, etc.) end up costing you a lot more to generate the same kWh then what the Utility will charge you. Also the batteries have a shelf life if they are used daily or monthly. Big expense with short life.

If you keep your watt hour load really small then a solar battery system may cost about $1000. What you have described for your man cave (lighting, mini-frig, tv, power tools) will cost many times that $1000. Increasing your load for the entire basement (full frig, microwave, big tv, lots of lites) will cost you as much as a new Mercedes.

If you want to "prep" for a short power outage then go with a quite inverter style generator. If you need power for a longer period then go with a whole house generator and a big propane tank. If you want power for a SHTF event then electrical power will be the least of your needs so why worry about it?

This all makes sense. Thank you all for your help and input. I guess I'll either start saving for a full house setup with a grid tie in or scrap the idea and figure something else out. Thanks again all for your help.

[SunEagle]

What's causing the high expense? The mini fridge? Light bulbs? I'm Looking for things to cut out. Also I probably will only be in there a few hours a day.

Also what is expensive? For just the room I was budgeting $1,000. This is mainly for "prepping". Just want to be able to use my prep instead of having a few panels and batteries in the garage in case there is an emergency. This way I get some use out of it.

In short the high expense is just that the equipment (solar panels, batteries, charger, inverter, fuses, wires, hardware, etc.) end up costing you a lot more to generate the same kWh then what the Utility will charge you. Also the batteries have a shelf life if they are used daily or monthly. Big expense with short life.

If you keep your watt hour load really small then a solar battery system may cost about $1000. What you have described for your man cave (lighting, mini-frig, tv, power tools) will cost many times that $1000. Increasing your load for the entire basement (full frig, microwave, big tv, lots of lites) will cost you as much as a new Mercedes.

If you want to "prep" for a short power outage then go with a quite inverter style generator. If you need power for a longer period then go with a whole house generator and a big propane tank. If you want power for a SHTF event then electrical power will be the least of your needs so why worry about it?

[Wy_White_Wolf]

What's causing the high expense? The mini fridge? Light bulbs? I'm Looking for things to cut out. Also I probably will only be in there a few hours a day.

Also what is expensive? For just the room I was budgeting $1,000. This is mainly for "prepping". Just want to be able to use my prep instead of having a few panels and batteries in the garage in case there is an emergency. This way I get some use out of it.

I would guess you're looking at least 10 to 15 times that amount. One big thing you are missing is that if the power does go out for extended amount of time is this will be your only place for power. You will be spending a lot more than a few hours a day.

Total up the power requirements for everything you listed with the number of hours they will run in a day. Off grid you need to figure worst case because any less you're left without power. Then you can see you usage down there is not going to be that low.

WWW

[Sunking]

The expense is simple to understand. You can pay the POCO 10-cents per Kwh monthly, or you can pay your battery suppliers $1 per Kwh all up front in cash every 5 years.