CCA verses RC

[almac]

If you want cost effectiveness in the long term in a house type Stand alone system then you cant go past a correctly sized system with quality components and true deep cycle batteries.

You need to consider maintenance and reliability. Mine is almost 9 years, not one single failure. Has been left for weeks on end with no one looking at it. One failure could mean a fridge and freezer full of food spoiled.

thats an excellent battery bank you bought, i checked out your link on another thread , they weigh 160kgs each? but you spent $7000 and even if they last 10yrs its still $700 a year plus interest forfeited, im looking for a way much cheaper than that. found some junked sealed batteries the other day. will try an equalize on them but will do it outside in case of any explosions. the way i see it, if i can get serviceable L.A. batteries for next to nothing, regardless of the type, then i will have my free sun power

[Living Large]

I am sure that Sun King will come along and interpret his musings for you. He never seems bashful and will not be censored, so he says.

You are never bashful at posting something odd like this whenever you see Sunking's username - for some inexplicable reason. Can you explain how this is productive?

[Bala]

its convenient to compartmentalize batteries as either one or the other , but you can use a deep cycle as a starting battery. in the end whether you use a "deep cycle" or a "hybrid" both wear out with use.

i am asking this question to determine cost effectiveness when choosing batteries. using deep cycle is not cost effective. using cheap hybrids might be more cost effective.

If you want cost effectiveness in the long term in a house type Stand alone system then you cant go past a correctly sized system with quality components and true deep cycle batteries.

You need to consider maintenance and reliability. Mine is almost 9 years, not one single failure. Has been left for weeks on end with no one looking at it. One failure could mean a fridge and freezer full of food spoiled.

[Willy T]

There are 3 groups of FLA batteries:

• SLI = Starting Lighting and Ignotion. The will have on CCA, CA, and sometimes MCA and RC. They will not have AH
• Hybrids use many Marketing names like Marine Deep Cycle, Golf Cart, RV. Leisure, Trolling, Floor Machine, and the list goes on. They will contain some or all rating of CCA, CA, MCA, RC, and AH trying to be all things.
• Deep Cycle are just that and only have AH rating period.

They are not my terms. You cannot spin them as they are clearly defined specs world wide. Something anyone can find. They are Industry terms/specs that come from and defined by BCI (Battery Counsel International) and apply in every country.

Is it possible to have a link on the BCI site where this information is located ?? I searched without any luck.

[almac]

.
Deep Cycle are just that and only have AH rating period.



They are not my terms. You cannot spin them as they are clearly defined specs world wide. Something anyone can find. They are Industry terms/specs that come from and defined by BCI (Battery Counsel International) and apply in every country.

these ratings are part of the marketing spin too, deep cycle only have an AH rating , that doesnt mean they dont have CCA capability because clearly they do. deep cycle batteries dont have a CCA rating purely for marketing reasons

[almac]

Post the brands models of the batteries you are comparing, are they name brands.

Manufacturers can put anything they want on a battery. There is no way you can prove or disprove their claims.

Even exides site is a bit vague.

http://www.exide.com/Media/files/Downloads/TransAmer/Transportation%20Americas%20Brochures%20for%20Download/Nautilus%20Marine%20Brochure%2011-14.pdf

I would not be relying on a battery to start an engine after it had delivered 10amps for 7 hrs. I think it should read start or deliver, not start and deliver.

its convenient to compartmentalize batteries as either one or the other , but you can use a deep cycle as a starting battery. in the end whether you use a "deep cycle" or a "hybrid" both wear out with use. i am asking this question to determine cost effectiveness when choosing batteries. using deep cycle is not cost effective. using cheap hybrids might be more cost effective.

[Bala]

thast ok for well financed setups, for the millions of less well financed it is the only option, so to know these things to look for in cheap alternatives makes the difference between having internet, lights. or kerosene lamps and wood fires. ... so i would guess that as the ratio of CCA goes down compared to RC going up the battery becomes progressively more disposed to deep cycling. a deep cycle has less CCA as opposed to RC, a SLI has more CCA as opposed to RC,

i have seen some batteries with 500CCA and 90 RC, some with 500CCA

and 140 RC. should i assume the latter is more disposed to deep cycling?

Post the brands models of the batteries you are comparing, are they name brands.

Manufacturers can put anything they want on a battery. There is no way you can prove or disprove their claims.

Even exides site is a bit vague.

http://www.exide.com/Media/files/Downloads/TransAmer/Transportation%20Americas%20Brochures%20for%20Download/Nautilus%20Marine%20Brochure%2011-14.pdf

Dual Purpose Batteries
Exide manufactures a line of dual purpose batteries which
combine deep cycle capability with starting power. They
deliver enough power to start a 350-hp engine and provide
at least 7 hours of continuous 10 amp 12-volt draw.

I would not be relying on a battery to start an engine after it had delivered 10amps for 7 hrs. I think it should read start or deliver, not start and deliver.

[Sunking]

no that didnt answer my question, because batteries are marketed with all different kinds of gimmicky names, i was wondering if you could interpret the internal design by the ratio of CCA to RC..

It was all explained quite well:

• CCA = Cold Cranking Amps @ 1.2 volts per cell @ 0F or -18C for 20 seconds.
• CA = MCA = Cold Cranking Amps @ 1.2 vpc @ 32 F or 0 C for 30 seconds.
• HCA = Hot Cranking Amps @ 1.2 vpc @ 80 F or 26.7C for 30 seconds
• RC = Reserve Capacity how many minutes the battery can supply 25 amps. You can get an ideal of AH from RC loosely. Example say RC = 60 minutes you are looking at something more than 25 AH.
• AH = Amp Hours at some specified discharge using 20 hours for consumer grade batteries, Commercial and Industrial grade batteries can be specified @ 4, 6, 8, and 10 hour discharge rates.

There are 3 groups of FLA batteries:

• SLI = Starting Lighting and Ignotion. The will have on CCA, CA, and sometimes MCA and RC. They will not have AH
• Hybrids (aka Dual Purpose)use many Marketing names like Marine Deep Cycle, Golf Cart, RV. Leisure, Trolling, Floor Machine, and the list goes on. They will contain some or all rating of CCA, CA, MCA, RC, and AH trying to be all things.
• Deep Cycle are just that and only have AH rating period.

They are not my terms. You cannot spin them as they are clearly defined specs world wide. Something anyone can find. They are Industry terms/specs that come from and defined by BCI (Battery Counsel International) and apply in every country.

[almac]

I cannot. not worth the bother. If I can get by with a golf cart battery, great, but if I need a true deep cycle, trojan, rolls, the big players, are where I go.

thats ok for well financed setups, for the millions of less well financed it is the only option, so to know these things to look for in cheap alternatives makes the difference between having internet, lights. or kerosene lamps and wood fires. ... so i would guess that as the ratio of CCA goes down compared to RC going up the battery becomes progressively more disposed to deep cycling. a deep cycle has less CCA as opposed to RC, a SLI has more CCA as opposed to RC, i have seen some batteries with 500CCA and 90 RC, some with 500CCA and 140 RC. should i assume the latter is more disposed to deep cycling?

[Mike90250]

no that didnt answer my question, because batteries are marketed with all different kinds of gimmicky names, i was wondering if you could interpret the internal design by the ratio of CCA to RC..

I cannot. not worth the bother. If I can get by with a golf cart battery, great, but if I need a true deep cycle, trojan, rolls, the big players, are where I go.

[almac]

If it has CCA , it's not a deep cycle. It could be a hybrid battery, (does nothing well) but those can be more cost effective because their lower life is offset by much lower cost.

If you read the sticky and have made up your mind, I guess we're all set

no that didnt answer my question, because batteries are marketed with all different kinds of gimmicky names, i was wondering if you could interpret the internal design by the ratio of CCA to RC..

can the larger RC rating on a battery compared to another battery with the same CCA but smaller RC tell you something about the internal structure of the battery?

[Mike90250]

not according to sun kings sticky in WTF about batteries.....

If it has CCA , it's not a deep cycle. It could be a hybrid battery, (does nothing well) but those can be more cost effective because their lower life is offset by much lower cost.

If you read the sticky and have made up your mind, I guess we're all set

[Willy T]

not according to sun kings sticky in WTF about batteries.. paste here...
.

I am sure that Sun King will come along and interpret his musings for you. He never seems bashful and will not be censored, so he says.

[almac]

If the label has CCA or RC on it, it's no good as a deep cycle battery.

not according to sun kings sticky in WTF about batteries.. paste here...


Hybrid Batteries are useful in RE applications. Like the name implies they are a cross between SLI and True Deep Cycle batteries trying to be both. To do this two trick trick pony the negative polarity plates are made from Lead Calcium Alloy llow, and the positive plates are made from Lead Antimony alloy They also have fewer thicker plates than SLI batteries to obtain some deep cycle capability, and lower internal resistance than Deep Cycle for decent high current charge/discharge rates. However the plate s are not as thick and heavy as True Deep Cycle batteries. So what you get is trade-offs.

They can deliver/take higher discharge/charge currents than True Deep Cycle, but not as much as SLI batteries. On the other hand they do not have the high number of cycles as True Deep Cycle batteries. Again a trade-off. For the FLA types you still have the lower limit charge rates of C/12 to prevent stratification, but on the charge/discharge side of FLA hybrids you can go as high as C/4, and some cases C/2. This makes them very useful for folks who use over sized Inverters or have to use high charge rates because of low Sun Hours in winter. So they have some good applications in cycle service, but you have to sacrifice charge cycles to get it.

You can spot a hybrid battery instantly in the specs and Market Names for them. In the specs they will list AH, RC, CCA, CA, and NCA trying to be all things. They come with all sorts of names like Golf Cart, Floor Machine, Trolling, EV, RV, Marine, Liesure, RV Deep Cycle, Marine Deep Cycle, Leisure Deep Cycle, and to whom do I have to give oral gratification to get some service around here.

[Mike90250]

If the label has CCA or RC on it, it's no good as a deep cycle battery.