Anyone Using Electric car as storage battery

[SunEagle]

That's a good practice, indeed. But, usually, the devices designed to be pluged into those cigarette sockets have an aditional fuse inside the plug.

Agreed. If you purchase quality hardware. Some that I have inspected were pretty cheap and did not even have good wire termination on that plug let along a in line fuse.

I just want to make people aware of potential problem when it comes to electrical equipment considering all of the cheap and illegal crap out there.

[santaclaws]

Maybe and maybe not depending on the vehicle and how it is wired. There is also the possibility that the fuse is oversized and will not perform as expected. I have had personal experience with fuse and circuit breakers not doing their job which ended up smoking some wires.

A good rule of thumb is not to rely totally on circuitry that you have not fully inspected or installed. That means not pushing it to its limits to see if it works as anticipated.

That's a good practice, indeed. But, usually, the devices designed to be pluged into those cigarette sockets have an aditional fuse inside the plug.

[Mike90250]

........

In this respect, it's obvious (and I guess anyone knows) that every cigarette socket is FUSED (10-30Amps, as others have confirmed) so no damage could be done.

After all, one could short out the cigarette socket by mistake - by trowing some conductive thing inside - or due to defective equipment pluging.

In every single situation, the FUSE will BLOW.......

Actually, I've had 2 occurrences, in 2 cars, where the under rated wires in the dash melted from large loads being plugged in for hours at a time, and the fuse was just fine, Automotive circuits in the 60's & 70's were not up to NEC standards.

[SunEagle]

Every cigarette socket is FUSED. What are we talking about?

Maybe and maybe not depending on the vehicle and how it is wired. There is also the possibility that the fuse is oversized and will not perform as expected. I have had personal experience with fuse and circuit breakers not doing their job which ended up smoking some wires.

A good rule of thumb is not to rely totally on circuitry that you have not fully inspected or installed. That means not pushing it to its limits to see if it works as anticipated.

[inetdog]

The initial topic of this thread was using an electric vehicle as a storage battery. All of the discussions of connecting to the 12V system are not relevant to that topic because the total energy storage available is so small, and apply equally well to any car, electric or not, that has a 12V battery.
Connecting to the HV traction battery is an entirely different question. You also cannot recharge the traction battery from a 12V connection.

[santaclaws]

Don't hold your breath. You already proved you do not know what you are talking about. Dangerous people like you get banned real quick. I suggest you leave now. You are a danger to the public.

Could you be more specific, please?

PS: I've read tons of forum topics and I've always apreciate your interventions. I even know that you're a "professional" of making people hate you but still I know that you're a good man.

[santaclaws]

In the name of the friendship, let's take it easy. Let's just remember how it started.

I first said that you could "borrow" some energy from the EV battery by using a cigarette socket brick inverter.

Someone denied the existence of a good 12V inverter hence I have replied that you can even source good sine wave inverters (12V input) in 500-1000W range.

Then there was a discussion about cigarette socket power ratings and, FOR EXEMPLIFICATION PURPOSE ONLY, I've stated that you could even use a 5kW inverter AS LONG as the LOAD is around 2-300W.

The whole discussion was about not voiding the guarantee thus no fancy wiring or fusing.

In this respect, it's obvious (and I guess anyone knows) that every cigarette socket is FUSED (10-30Amps, as others have confirmed) so no damage could be done.

After all, one could short out the cigarette socket by mistake - by trowing some conductive thing inside - or due to defective equipment pluging.

In every single situation, the FUSE will BLOW.

The whole "5kW inverter" thing was a theoretical discussion about inverter ratings and their actual load. I thought that my example (5kW/12V) was hypothetical enough as to be considered just a theoretical approach.

==

I really hate this situation as I'm not used to argue (especially with people I do not know). Maybe I should have expressed my oppinions using more words(!) but english it's not my native language so I'm trying to be short to not commit too many mistakes.

Even it's such a hard thing for Sunking to do, I apologise to everyone for this misunderstanding.

Regarding my degree, I was born in the 70's hence you can bet that I went through those "4 years of practical application" since then.

PS: I feel like the next step of "royal we" would be to force me to make public my wife and kids names! (j/k)

That's it, no bad feelings from me.

[Mike90250]

The big issue is, the degree is just a sheet of paper. Then it takes another 4 years to convert the book learning to practical application, In the meantime, stuff blows up.
So as long as it's YOUR stuff blowing up (or battery banks burning) we snigger and try to be mostly polite. But when the advice you hand out, is sketchy and "royal we" think it's going to be dangerous for a neophyte surfing about battery banks and sees 5KW and 12V and like yeah, that's for me, we get the pucker in our sphincter and all yell in unison
THATS NOT A SAFE IDEA to be throwing around. Maybe when you understand how real life applications work and understand why one bad cell in a multi-battery bank took the whole mess down, you could become part of the "royal we".
Until then, we reserve the right to highlight bad practice.

[Sunking]

Appologies expected.

Don't hold your breath. You already proved you do not know what you are talking about. Dangerous people like you get banned real quick. I suggest you leave now. You are a danger to the public.

[santaclaws]

Who's identity did you steal to get that fake degree?

. Any first year student would knows a 10 Amp Cigarette Lighter or Vehicle Power Ports as they call them them today is 120 watts and would never say something so stupid as you have done.You are a fraud and now have a bullseye placed rightfully so on your back with respect to this forum. I suggest you leave now and never come back. Hell you cannot even spot a shorted cell in a battery and confused why it killed all your parallel batteries.

Appologies expected.

[santaclaws]

Hooking up a 5000 watt inverter to a cigarette lighter plug would be a tad on the ridiculous side. The power consumption of a 5000 watt inverter at idle would likely equal a 2-300 watt inverter at full tilt., plus a 5000 watt, 12 volt inverter is just plain dangerous. 5000 watts @ 11.5 volts is 435 amps. What's the surge rating divided by 11.5 volts?

Unfortunately, your comments don't really "breath" science.

(1) Every cigarette socket is FUSED, so stop flooding this thread with those 435 Amps!

(2) My home brew 5000 W pure sine wave inverter has a stand-by consumption of EXACTLY 22 W. If you think you could handle the details, just ask.

(3) Stop topic cross-talking, please. I'm honored that you're advertising my degree in electronics on another thread but you don't have to. Really.

[santaclaws]

You may have a degree in electronics but IMO have no idea what is required concerning electrical power systems or the NEC. By the way the NEC does print a larger code manual that includes pictures to help explain what is in the text.

As I stated in the other thread. Regardless of what the inverter is rated the wiring must be protected by an over current device. Usually the wire can withstand very short duration high currents (which will get it hot) but not for long term or the insulation will melt and the leads will short. So while that inverter might handle 650watt the wiring won't for anything other that a short surge.

Every cigarette socket is FUSED. What are we talking about?

[santaclaws]

Relax, people!.. what are you talking about??

Of course you can use any inverter size with a cigar socket, it is that simple: if the socket doesn't like it, THE FUSE will blow. Did I have to mention that EVERY cigarette socket is fused??

Anyway, I smell a lot of intolerance on your posts but I can go on with that. I'll just need to filter out the insults and your valuable informations still remain (no joking).

I know, I "mess" with the moderators/vets.. now what, do you want me to became an yesman?!

I've read a lot of topics on this forum and I agree that Sunking, SunEagle, inetdog and the rest of vets have very educated oppinions and a great experience in this field.

But it doesn't means that they can't go wrong, can they?

I still don't get what's the problem? I see mixed emotions related to shorted battery cells from a completely different thread, I see people making fun of my electronics degree (though no one actually dare to challange my knowledges).. like I've just said, I don't really mind (I'm not crying too often) but your reaction is a simple plain mystery..

[Sunking]

I have a degree in electronics but you can show me some pictures to get it right.

So let me repeat once again: you can even use a 5kW inverter with a 2-300W load and no damage would be done to any cigar socket.

Who's identity did you steal to get that fake degree?

. Any first year student would knows a 10 Amp Cigarette Lighter or Vehicle Power Ports as they call them them today is 120 watts and would never say something so stupid as you have done.You are a fraud and now have a bullseye placed rightfully so on your back with respect to this forum. I suggest you leave now and never come back. Hell you cannot even spot a shorted cell in a battery and confused why it killed all your parallel batteries.

[solarix]

This subject is what is known as V to G (Vehicle to Grid), has been kicked around quite a bit by the smart-grid dreamers, was promoted by Alan Cocconi of AC Propulsion who was the designer for GM of the EV1 and sold his technology to Tesla. V to G is not ready for prime time, requires an integrated system in the EV to facilitate it and is bound to additionally degrade the battery which may well cost more than the electricity being saved...