Help with batttery system

[inetdog]

He continually hurls insults about people that have a 12 volt system by call then children and their system as toys. People get tired of defending themselves and their systems. The system that someone builds and uses is the one that fits.

Is this some kind of poster ownership ?? How many posts do I have to make on a thread before I can claim ownership of a poster ??

Well,

1. There are a lot more people who have gotten stuck with 12V systems when they had high enough power needs that they really should have chosen a higher system voltage than there are people who have solid logical reasons to use 12V and yet are trying to get high power out of it.
Dereck tends to generalize and sometimes does not read the entire post that he is replying to. But for those who are willing to listen his advice is good.
I understand how you might get tired of people telling you that you made a really bad design decision when you do not care about that. The solution is to ignore them in that case.

2. To a certain extent the first poster on a thread "owns" it. In the sense that they control the title that shows up in the lists and they get to pose the first question.

Other than that, it is free and open to all.
In some cases the Mods may decide to split off a new thread if an interesting topic has diverged too far from the original topic of the thread. You are free to do that at any time yourself and insert a link to your new thread. Only Mods and Admins can move existing posts from one thread to another though.

If the OP (original poster) has started a thread and then vanished (very frustrating) then there is nobody with more rights to the thread than anybody else.

[inetdog]

Sun King, you know what you can do, don't you ?? n12Volt systems work great unless your you, you only have a Golf Cart.

Willy, your arguments with Dereck's statements will be much more credible if they are coherent and readable. I am not sure what you are trying to say.

[Sunking]

Thats your opinion, the insults don't bolster it much though.

Shared by all pros. You are not a pro. Keep sticking your neck out. I am more than happy to chop your head off every time you do. You keep asking for it so you must like it.

I am helping Steve with his numerous threads. He has thanked my many times already. He has not even acknowledged you exist. What does that tell you Willy?

Now go away and quit starting trouble.

[Willy T]

IOTA DLS chargers are single stage chargers. The IQ4 is the 3 stage brains available built in or as a plug in module that makes them 3 stage.

That is why I suggested to buy plug in module and it can be used either way. There is also a way to turn the the output voltage on the 24v models to 32v for equalization using the internal potentiometer.

I see the "iota-iq4-smart-charge-controller" for $39.99

How about $19

http://www.solar-electric.com/batteries-meters-accessories/bach2/bach1/smarcharconi.html

[Sunking]

I would rather go 24v. looks like they have two different models priced pretty close that are 25 amp or 40 amps in 24v. and I see the "iota-iq4-smart-charge-controller" for $39.99 Maybe I should give them a call on Monday, I'm wondering 25 or 40 amps for my four 225 amp 6v batteries in series. Cost wise I'd rather go with the 25 amp of course if that would do the job.

Steve there is no problem going with a 3-Stage Charger. What I am saying is there is no reason to pay extra for 3-Stage in your application. Understand?

Having said that Iota is a good charger, and you can get a 24 volt 40 amp model for around $350. It is a 3-Stage plue EQ (OK 4 stage) Its all about economics my friend. You do not need a 3-Stage charger for your orgy, no more than you need 3 wives. But heck if you can have 3 wives cheaper than 1, hump at it. Err I mean have at it. Its you orgy and money.

At the power levels you want no less than 24 volts. Try to find a 80 amp 12 volt charger. Here is a hint. You can find 20 amp 48 volt charges cheap. (Golf Carts)
Stay far away from 12 volts or anyone who suggest 12 volt toys .

12 volts @ 80 Amps = 24 Volts @ 40 amps = 48 Volts @ 20 Amps = 960 watts in 5th grade math.

[stevo]

I thought you wanted 12 V ?? About a year ago it seems like all chargers went up $ 100 all at one time.


Try here, again, I'd get the IQ4 as the plug in module. Later if you want to equalize with it, there is a way to turn up the voltage.

http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/iota-battery-chargers-power-supplies.html

IQ4 module

http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/...ontroller.html

I would rather go 24v. looks like they have two different models priced pretty close that are 25 amp or 40 amps in 24v. and I see the "iota-iq4-smart-charge-controller" for $23.99 Maybe I should give them a call on Monday, I'm wondering 25 or 40 amps for my four 225 amp 6v batteries in series. Cost wise I'd rather go with the 25 amp of course if that would do the job.

[Willy T]

I did find this.... IOTA DLS-27-15/IQ4 24 VOLT 15 AMP 4 STAGE AUTOMATIC SMART BATTERY CHARGER / POWER SUPPLY

Its $231 at Amazon, might be the ticket

The 25 amp is $266

Then theres this one on Ebay......DLS-27-40/IQ4 IOTA 24V 40A 4 STAGE AUTOMATIC SMART BATTERY CHARGER/POWER SUPPLY ...$347.00,

I thought you wanted 12 V ?? About a year ago it seems like all chargers went up $ 100 all at one time.


Try here, again, I'd get the IQ4 as the plug in module. Later if you want to equalize with it, there is a way to turn up the voltage.

http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/iota-battery-chargers-power-supplies.html

IQ4 module

http://www.boatandrvaccessories.com/iota-iq4-smart-charge-controller.html

[stevo]

I'd get a IOTA DSL-30, charger / power supply, 12 v and the separate IQ4 plug in module and it'd have 3 stage and charge up two GC-2's pretty quick, I think the DLS-45 amp would be a little on the big side, but would also work. it's all you need for a system like yours.

I did find this.... IOTA DLS-27-15/IQ4 24 VOLT 15 AMP 4 STAGE AUTOMATIC SMART BATTERY CHARGER / POWER SUPPLY

Its $231 at Amazon, might be the ticket

The 25 amp is $266

Then theres this one on Ebay......DLS-27-40/IQ4 IOTA 24V 40A 4 STAGE AUTOMATIC SMART BATTERY CHARGER/POWER SUPPLY ...$347.00,

[stevo]

I'd get a IOTA DSL-30, charger / power supply, 12 v and the separate IQ4 plug in module and it'd have 3 stage and charge up two GC-2's pretty quick, I think the DLS-45 amp would be a little on the big side, but would also work. it's all you need for a system like yours.

There seems to be an abundance of options in the 12v chargers but going to 24v and its four times the price. It sounds like I may be back on for 24v if this "float charger" can be found for my system, which is on "stand by" mode 99.9% the the time.

[stevo]

All chargers produce Constant Current, the difference is the voltage set points. In a 3-Stage charger the voltage set points are higher than Float, or an over charge condition to force constant current into the battery longer, thus speeding up recharge time. 3 Stage charging is used for daily cycle applications, and Emergency Stand By systems use Float.

3 Stage is hard on batteries, but it is faster which is desired with daily cycle applications. Float Chargers are the Kinder Gentler chargers used for Emergency Stand By and continuous service like a UPS. All commercial operations like Telecom, Utilities, Broadcast, CATV,Military, Emergency Egress Lighting, and other high priority operations use Float Chargers. They are connected to the chargers and never turned off. Every phone call you make and every data bit you send comes from from a Float Charger. Every police radio call comes from a Float Charger. If power fails, you would never know it because when power fails, the batteries are already online ready to take over.

You can use either one you want. Float charges will cost less money. If you know how chargers work, you can make a Float charger just as fast as a 3-stage charger. Most Float chargers you can set the voltage and/or have an EQ switch. Instead of Floating at 13.6 volts on a 12 volt system, just turn it up to 14.4 and you now essential have a stage charger. It is just manual operation rather than automatic.

What is the difference? 3-stage cost more, puts more stress on the battery from gassing, and are a couple of hours faster. So all I am saying is your application is Daily Cycling, it is Emergency Stand By. You can certainly use 3-Stage, but you do not need it.

Thank You, thats ALL news to me, theres allot to this stuff. So that means, back to the 24v plan. Can you recommend such a "float charger" as all I could find was small ones.

[Sunking]

Nope, don't see any UL Listing, the search continues I guess.

You did not look closely enough. Everything Progressive Dynamics makes is UL.

IS THIS THE MODEL?

UL is clearly shown.



Which means it is listed in Canada and USA

[Sunking]

How does the float-only charger give a maximum charge to the battery after it has been discharged? Would'nt a three stage charger be better for that?

All chargers produce Constant Current, the difference is the voltage set points. In a 3-Stage charger the voltage set points are higher than Float, or an over charge condition to force constant current into the battery longer, thus speeding up recharge time. 3 Stage charging is used for daily cycle applications, and Emergency Stand By systems use Float.

3 Stage is hard on batteries, but it is faster which is desired with daily cycle applications. Float Chargers are the Kinder Gentler chargers used for Emergency Stand By and continuous service like a UPS. All commercial operations like Telecom, Utilities, Broadcast, CATV,Military, Emergency Egress Lighting, and other high priority operations use Float Chargers. They are connected to the chargers and never turned off. Every phone call you make and every data bit you send comes from from a Float Charger. Every police radio call comes from a Float Charger. If power fails, you would never know it because when power fails, the batteries are already online ready to take over.

You can use either one you want. Float charges will cost less money. If you know how chargers work, you can make a Float charger just as fast as a 3-stage charger. Most Float chargers you can set the voltage and/or have an EQ switch. Instead of Floating at 13.6 volts on a 12 volt system, just turn it up to 14.4 and you now essential have a stage charger. It is just manual operation rather than automatic.

What is the difference? 3-stage cost more, puts more stress on the battery from gassing, and are a couple of hours faster. So all I am saying is your application is Daily Cycling, it is Emergency Stand By. You can certainly use 3-Stage, but you do not need it.

[lkruper]

Looking at the prices of 24v 60 amp three stage chargers and 1000 watt 24v inverters, maybe I need to back up the power train and go with two golf cart batteries a 500 watt 12v inverter and battery charger, that system would provide enough for lights & TV for a couple days then it would be time to pump water with the jenny, at which time the batteries could be charged with an affordable 12v charger. I also don't understand how the batteries would be recharged with a float charger if they were flat and the grid was still down.

I have been going over this exercise for my grid-connected cabin just in case there is a power outage. I got a kill-o-watt meter to measure what I am using and starting looking at my devices to see what they pull. I discovered that my very nice 32" Sony HDTV pulls 142 watts (still need to measure actual). I found a 32" Samsung commonly sold at Target/Walmart, etc that is said to pull 28w and also works on both AC and DC. The difference is huge.

I have been going over all the options for batteries, chargers, solar, etc and think my first move will be to utilize a 2KW inverter generator that I already own and also consider getting a manual transfer switch. I just put in an APC UPS to handle my DSL modem. I am considering the APC 1500 with extra battery pack for a combined total for the entertainment from Amazon which looks like for about $300 I can get about 4 hrs.

This will take the vast majority of power outages (I have fireplace, oil lamps, camping stoves, etc ) while I plan for El Nino this summer and potential floods which could affect power.

[Willy T]

Looking at the prices of 24v 60 amp three stage chargers and 1000 watt 24v inverters, maybe I need to back up the power train and go with two golf cart batteries a 500 watt 12v inverter and battery charger, that system would provide enough for lights & TV for a couple days then it would be time to pump water with the jenny, at which time the batteries could be charged with an affordable 12v charger. I also don't understand how the batteries would be recharged with a float charger if they were flat and the grid was still down.

I'd get a IOTA DSL-30, charger / power supply, 12 v and the separate IQ4 plug in module and it'd have 3 stage and charge up two GC-2's pretty quick, I think the DLS-45 amp would be a little on the big side, but would also work. it's all you need for a system like yours.

[stevo]

Thanks for the clear tutorial! If I might ask a question. How does the float-only charger give a maximum charge to the battery after it has been discharged? Would'nt a three stage charger be better for that?

Looking at the prices of 24v 60 amp three stage chargers and 1000 watt 24v inverters, maybe I need to back up the power train and go with two golf cart batteries a 500 watt 12v inverter and battery charger, that system would provide enough for lights & TV for a couple days then it would be time to pump water with the jenny, at which time the batteries could be charged with an affordable 12v charger. I also don't understand how the batteries would be recharged with a float charger if they were flat and the grid was still down.