Gifted 19 Kyocera 120 watt panels?

[littleharbor]

Hi LH,

I am interested. I don't want to clutter up this thread with a bunch of unrelated replies. Can you shoot me an email at Joseph.Lynch2 at g mail?

Done

[Moto_Joe87]

Joe, If you don't have any luck here I have about half a dozen factory refurbished kc-120s. They are for all intents and purposes new save for the cells that Kyocera has corrected the lead free solder issue these panels had. they have new frames, backsheets and junction boxes. I am in So. Cal. so this may not work for you but just wanted to help if I could.

Hi LH,

I am interested. I don't want to clutter up this thread with a bunch of unrelated replies. Can you shoot me an email at Joseph.Lynch2 at g mail?

[littleharbor]

Hi Tiffany,

I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your home. I hope all is going well with the RV! I don't know if this is allowed or not and I apologize if it's inappropriate. I'm also in NorCal (Nevada City specifically). I'm in the process of putting together my own off grid system (for an off grid cabin). I've got a few of these KC120-1s and they've treated me great so far. I'm in kind of desperate need of a few more to make my Vmp match up with a new charge controller I'm transitioning to, and they're pretty hard to find online. If you'd like to sell two of three of the KC120s you have (assuming they're not all in use) I've be extremely grateful! I didn't find a method to private message you on this forum but I wanted to try and see if we could work something out, especially since you're so close. Again, sorry to the Mods and/or board if this is an inappropriate reply.

-Joe

Joe, If you don't have any luck here I have about half a dozen factory refurbished kc-120s. They are for all intents and purposes new save for the cells that Kyocera has corrected the lead free solder issue these panels had. they have new frames, backsheets and junction boxes. I am in So. Cal. so this may not work for you but just wanted to help if I could.

[Moto_Joe87]

Hi Tiffany,

I'm very sorry to hear about the loss of your home. I hope all is going well with the RV! I don't know if this is allowed or not and I apologize if it's inappropriate. I'm also in NorCal (Nevada City specifically). I'm in the process of putting together my own off grid system (for an off grid cabin). I've got a few of these KC120-1s and they've treated me great so far. I'm in kind of desperate need of a few more to make my Vmp match up with a new charge controller I'm transitioning to, and they're pretty hard to find online. If you'd like to sell two of three of the KC120s you have (assuming they're not all in use) I've be extremely grateful! I didn't find a method to private message you on this forum but I wanted to try and see if we could work something out, especially since you're so close. Again, sorry to the Mods and/or board if this is an inappropriate reply.

-Joe

[J.P.M.]

Tiffany:

Take a deep breath and read Zamboni's last post again as well as all the others in this thread.

IMO only, you appear to be under false impressions and notions of what can be accomplished in a practical sense.

No one here wants to hurt you, but it looks to me that you are mostly unaware of what can and cannot be done in any realistic sense.

You need a fair amount of technical education.

Until you get that education, you will be wasting your money and frustrating yourself, not to mention the possibility of putting yourself and those around you in some danger.

What you don't know can and will hurt you.

[zamboni]

Whoa! Overwhelmed over here.

Good, you should be. As already mentioned what you're trying to do is a big undertaking. I know it seems straightforward from where you stand, but once you get into the details (and there are many), it will become clearer.

I Am A Go Getter Type, If Someone Tells Me It Is Possable I Will Give It My All.

Listen, i get this. I'm like this too; perhaps worse -- If someone tells me it's impossible i'll try even harder to find a way. I've had some successes...but also wasted a lot of time and money. So i do not criticize your motivation and enthusiasm. But if you want to be taken seriously, the first step is acknowledging that you're biting off a lot. This forum has very experienced, very knowledgeable, very patient people. Smart freaking people with decades of experience, whose entire careers / lifestyles are centered around batteries or solar. There's also some jokers like me who like to jump into the deep end of everything. We all want you to be happy, to save you the pain of expensive mistakes, and to stay SAFE. Safety in DIY starts with fully understanding what you're working with.

My little story: My GF and i decided to move into an RV full-time, but we're treehuggers so we wanted to power it entirely from solar. We were told, repeatedly, that it was "impossible". I knew it was going to be hard, for sure. But we got a rig and i spent the next year and half researching how to put together the system. Obviously this was free-time research, a few hours a day. But i put in a lot of time. I found a lot of BAD information, a tiny bit of good, and lots that was outright missing and up to me to figure out. Keep in mind i'm a reasonably competent person technically -- an engineer by training and occupation (not in electricity though). I did alright. We've been living on solar for nearly 3 years now -- but we do not have A/C. Yes, i have run a 5000BTU window unit for a few hours during the hottest part of the day as an experiment. But we didn't keep it; didn't make sense.

Frankly your situation does not sound conducive to taking on such a project. Even i wouldn't do it. You've just lost a house and i can't imagine what kind of stress, distraction, and financial pressure that creates. Are you in a hurry to get this done? Cuz that won't go well. What is your motivation for this move -- is the RV a temporary solution 'til you find a new house, or are you transitioning to full-time RVing long term? How confident are you that you'll remain full-time if you've never done it before? FT Rving has ended a lot of relationships! And what's your motivation for the solar? Are you a treehugger like me or are you just trying to save some money? The break-even point on solar is measured in years. Will you still be in the rig in a couple years? An RV with major solar install is not easy to re-sell; an RV with a generator is.

Do the math on how many days of the year you'll actually need to run A/C and think about whether it makes more sense to size your solar system moderately and just pay for hookups when it's too hot. Or run a generator. I mean, you're in northern CA not Phoenix, and your house is on wheels for a reason. The difference between a solar install that runs your lights TV and fridge, and one that can also power two roof A/C is probably more than $5k. You can get like a full year of (California-priced) RV-park camping for that cost, and that includes dump, water fill, shower, and crappy WiFi. Maybe even a pool...

Yeah, i'm trying to talk you out of it. If after considering our input you still want to go ahead, okay -- but come back with a pic of the roof and a real energy audit which contains duration and time of use info, and some more carefully measured numbers including duty cycle 'cuz i'm pretty sure those roof A/C don't actually draw 1500W steady-state, and your fridge number seems high too. Compared to the work ahead of you these are trifling things to ask.

[Mike90250]

..... Also looking into building battery's from 18650 batterys. Any reason this would not work? .......

NEVER / NO / DONT do this at home

18650 are very particular Li cells and can burn / explode easily. In a DIY beginners pack, it's almost certain to happen. You are talking thousands of connections from cell to cell, nightmareish BMS wiring. And many of the 18650 cells are counterfeit, used cells. Totally worthless to build into a pack.

https://batterybro.com/blogs/18650-wholesale-battery-reviews/104619270-can-you-identify-the-fake-lg-hg2-18650-battery

Anyone have any other ideas of how I could mount without holes being drilled everywhere?

Build a grid of unistrut style metal on top, and mount the panels to that. I don't know if I would trust VHB tape on weathered surfaces, unless they were buffed (with out wax compounds) to get to clean fresh substrate.

if I could run a a.c. This summer I would tickled pink and call it a success

I think that's only going to happen with a generator, the roof is likely not well suited for solar.
Maybe if you are parked and have a ground mount array and a doghouse to hold batteries and inverter, you can do it.

[Tiffany H]

Tiffany, sorry to hear about your home. Full-time RVing can be a pretty awesome experience, though - i hope your transition goes well. There will be a lot of rough patches since you are having to make the change very quickly, not only from home to RV but also boondocking on top of that. When the horrible days happen, remember that it will get better!

I agree totally with all the advice given to you already. I am not nearly as knowledgeable as those people above re: solar power, but i have lived fulltime in an RV using only my solar panels for almost 3 years. ; )

Heads up: A lot of people will tell you that you "can't" do all sorts of things in an RV (especially regarding solar). There's also a lot of people who will charge you way too much to work on the RV. Those people almost all can be found inside RV dealerships and RV-specific repair shops ; ) Get second opinions and hit the forums before you drop any serious money on your coach. This applies to non-solar issues as well.

Having said that, A/C on solar power is asking a lot. Most folks simply don't realize the large amount of energy it takes to cool down a hot structure. I'm on other RV forums, facebook groups, instagram, etc. Everybody on the internet and even in the real world wants to know about A/C from solar in an RV. It's the second question i get asked when people stop me on the road (The first one is always "is that thing homemade?" -- our trailer is kinda different-looking). The short answer is basically no. Not with lithium batteries, not with anything that Elon Musk may have just announced, not with whatever wild idea you may have heard about. This is not because it's actually impossible - i know of some who are doing it now - but the costs are very high and the system needs to be done by someone with experience. It's simply too much to bite off for your first time. The risk of making an expensive mistake is intolerably high. Unless money is no object or you are extremely committed to using exclusively solar power for your life, it makes far more sense to run your A/C off a generator.

How long is the Bounder? Class A's usually are easier than trailers for solar installs because of all the space in the chassis compartments. Can you get a photo of the roof, perhaps from a second-story window? Let's see how bad your shading situation is. Those panels are 56" x 27". If arranged 3 in a row across the width of the rig, 18 of them would cover nearly the entire roof of a 28 foot long rig - with no gaps for vents, A/C, antennas, etc. So even if your rig is huge, you may not be able to get them all up there and will need to find a home (or buyer) for some of the unused ones. No worries though -- using every one of those panels would result in a 2375W array, which is positively gargantuan for an RV and probably oversized for what you'll end up doing.

As LetItRoll mentions above, a 'ground deploy' array should also be something you consider. This could be in addition-to or instead-of roof panels. There's great reasons both for and against this approach...really depends on your lifestyle and priorities.

Tilting panels on the roof of an RV is one of those favorite forum debates. That argument gets rehashed like every week on Facebook. I think there are a few specific situations where it makes sense, but mostly not. It's too early to be asking that question though. You ought to be able to find plenty of old forum threads and facebook RV solar groups with old conversations about this, to give you an idea what the issues are.

A little Reality Check (sorry to be a bummer but want to prepare you):

• The solar panels already installed will not likely help you much and whatever system is already in place to use them is almost certainly inadequate. It will probably all have to come out. But at least you won't have to drill any new holes through the roof for wires (probably).
• Not having to buy the panels is great, but be aware that they are not the most expensive component of most RV systems. Batteries, inverter, and charge controller are pricey components - likely another $3k at least.
• The batteries already in your coach are almost surely not suitable for this kind of solar install. You'll be buying new (and more) batteries.
• It used to be possible to take a 30% tax discount on the purchase price of solar equipment for an RV, as the RV counted as a legitimate "second home" for tax purposes. I don't know if this is still in place with the current administration. I also don't know how this will pan out given your situation with the fire...but worth looking into.

The first thing you're going to hear everyone ask you for is an energy audit. I know it seems like a pain but it really is extremely important. It's not just a "check the box" thing...and honestly it's not all that bad once you start it. Until we know (with relatively good detail) what you're going to use the electricity for, it will be impossible to give you specific, helpful answers. Note that Mike was careful to ask about electricity usage both during the most sunny part of the day and during the rest of the day. Don't overlook that detail.

Other questions you need to answer for yourself: What other fuels you'll be using -- will you use propane for cooking and hot water? What about space heating (be aware that the blower of a propane heater consumes substantial electricity)? Is the fridge propane, or "residential" (electric) type? Is there already a generator and do you want to use it regularly -- or only for A/C? What about your expected travel pattern: Frequency of moving, kinds of locations, availability of shore power, etc. Are you able to work remotely or does the rig have to be near a workplace? Will you be staying in CA or ranging farther out?

I realize that's a lot of questions, and moreso for someone new to both fulltiming, AND solar...it's definitely overwhelming. I haven't forgotten how i felt when we first set out. You can work through it a little at a time. Just don't buy anything yet. You have a steep learning curve ahead of you but it can all be done.

- Jerud
------------------------------------------------------------
1220W array / 1000Ah LFP house bank
MidniteSolar Classic, Magnum MS2812
ME-RC, Trimetric, and JLD404
2001 Fleetwood Prowler 5th wheel 25 foot, self-rebuilt
Full-time 100% electric boondocking (no propane, no genny!) since 2015
www.livesmallridefree.com

Whoa! Overwhelmed over here. Lol, so my bounder is 34 ft long two ac's and lots of antennas., Class A, I don't know if I can get pics, but here me out. if I could run a a.c. This summer I would tickled pink and call it a success. I recently bought 32 astro power frameless panels AP130 (130 watt) was thinking about floating them on high density foam that is vhb taped to the roof and panels. Bad idea from wind resistance? Also looking into building battery's from 18650 batterys. Any reason this would not work? Besides the wind? Anyone have any other ideas of how I could mount without holes being drilled everywhere? Boy I'm a mess this solar stuff tends to make me dizzy.

Ac 2500 Starting 1500 Running
Fridge Is 400 Watts,
Lights Are 5 - 15 Watts (all Led 12 Volt)
Tv Is 250 Watts
Air Purifier 15 Watts
can I make this work? And I can do without tv if it means cool air.
If I Can Mod The Air Conditioning Or Replace With Lower Wattage I Will. I Am A Go Getter Type, If Someone Tells Me It Is Possable I Will Give It My All.

[zamboni]

Tiffany, sorry to hear about your home. Full-time RVing can be a pretty awesome experience, though - i hope your transition goes well. There will be a lot of rough patches since you are having to make the change very quickly, not only from home to RV but also boondocking on top of that. When the horrible days happen, remember that it will get better!

I agree totally with all the advice given to you already. I am not nearly as knowledgeable as those people above re: solar power, but i have lived fulltime in an RV using only my solar panels for almost 3 years. ; )

Heads up: A lot of people will tell you that you "can't" do all sorts of things in an RV (especially regarding solar). There's also a lot of people who will charge you way too much to work on the RV. Those people almost all can be found inside RV dealerships and RV-specific repair shops ; ) Get second opinions and hit the forums before you drop any serious money on your coach. This applies to non-solar issues as well.

Having said that, A/C on solar power is asking a lot. Most folks simply don't realize the large amount of energy it takes to cool down a hot structure. I'm on other RV forums, facebook groups, instagram, etc. Everybody on the internet and even in the real world wants to know about A/C from solar in an RV. It's the second question i get asked when people stop me on the road (The first one is always "is that thing homemade?" -- our trailer is kinda different-looking). The short answer is basically no. Not with lithium batteries, not with anything that Elon Musk may have just announced, not with whatever wild idea you may have heard about. This is not because it's actually impossible - i know of some who are doing it now - but the costs are very high and the system needs to be done by someone with experience. It's simply too much to bite off for your first time. The risk of making an expensive mistake is intolerably high. Unless money is no object or you are extremely committed to using exclusively solar power for your life, it makes far more sense to run your A/C off a generator.

How long is the Bounder? Class A's usually are easier than trailers for solar installs because of all the space in the chassis compartments. Can you get a photo of the roof, perhaps from a second-story window? Let's see how bad your shading situation is. Those panels are 56" x 27". If arranged 3 in a row across the width of the rig, 18 of them would cover nearly the entire roof of a 28 foot long rig - with no gaps for vents, A/C, antennas, etc. So even if your rig is huge, you may not be able to get them all up there and will need to find a home (or buyer) for some of the unused ones. No worries though -- using every one of those panels would result in a 2375W array, which is positively gargantuan for an RV and probably oversized for what you'll end up doing.

As LetItRoll mentions above, a 'ground deploy' array should also be something you consider. This could be in addition-to or instead-of roof panels. There's great reasons both for and against this approach...really depends on your lifestyle and priorities.

Tilting panels on the roof of an RV is one of those favorite forum debates. That argument gets rehashed like every week on Facebook. I think there are a few specific situations where it makes sense, but mostly not. It's too early to be asking that question though. You ought to be able to find plenty of old forum threads and facebook RV solar groups with old conversations about this, to give you an idea what the issues are.

A little Reality Check (sorry to be a bummer but want to prepare you):

• The solar panels already installed will not likely help you much and whatever system is already in place to use them is almost certainly inadequate. It will probably all have to come out. But at least you won't have to drill any new holes through the roof for wires (probably).
• Not having to buy the panels is great, but be aware that they are not the most expensive component of most RV systems. Batteries, inverter, and charge controller are pricey components - likely another $3k at least.
• The batteries already in your coach are almost surely not suitable for this kind of solar install. You'll be buying new (and more) batteries.
• It used to be possible to take a 30% tax discount on the purchase price of solar equipment for an RV, as the RV counted as a legitimate "second home" for tax purposes. I don't know if this is still in place with the current administration. I also don't know how this will pan out given your situation with the fire...but worth looking into.

The first thing you're going to hear everyone ask you for is an energy audit. I know it seems like a pain but it really is extremely important. It's not just a "check the box" thing...and honestly it's not all that bad once you start it. Until we know (with relatively good detail) what you're going to use the electricity for, it will be impossible to give you specific, helpful answers. Note that Mike was careful to ask about electricity usage both during the most sunny part of the day and during the rest of the day. Don't overlook that detail.

Other questions you need to answer for yourself: What other fuels you'll be using -- will you use propane for cooking and hot water? What about space heating (be aware that the blower of a propane heater consumes substantial electricity)? Is the fridge propane, or "residential" (electric) type? Is there already a generator and do you want to use it regularly -- or only for A/C? What about your expected travel pattern: Frequency of moving, kinds of locations, availability of shore power, etc. Are you able to work remotely or does the rig have to be near a workplace? Will you be staying in CA or ranging farther out?

I realize that's a lot of questions, and moreso for someone new to both fulltiming, AND solar...it's definitely overwhelming. I haven't forgotten how i felt when we first set out. You can work through it a little at a time. Just don't buy anything yet. You have a steep learning curve ahead of you but it can all be done.

- Jerud
------------------------------------------------------------
1220W array / 1000Ah LFP house bank
MidniteSolar Classic, Magnum MS2812
ME-RC, Trimetric, and JLD404
2001 Fleetwood Prowler 5th wheel 25 foot, self-rebuilt
Full-time 100% electric boondocking (no propane, no genny!) since 2015

https://www.livesmallridefree.com

[LETitROLL]

Hello everyone, my name is Tiffany and my Husband and I have lost our place of resident's this last summer during the Wall Fire in northern Calfornia. Anywho, I am starting my life as a full time Rv'er and am quite new to the concept of off griding. And was gifted 19 Kyocera 120 watt 17 volt panels. there also from 2003.

My question is can I use these with my 91 bounder Motorhome?
Should I sell these and get different panels?
If so what parts do I need to make this work?

Thanks in advance for your time on this Superbowl Sunday.

You have a big task ahead of you, as Mike said, you should expect to have about 10% of the power budget you used to have when on grid. Will you be on the move most of the time, or staying at certain places for a couple weeks/months here and there over time? One thing that can make a big difference for little money, (only if you would be stationary for weeks or more at times) would be 2 small systems instead of 1 large, as others may have mentioned the angle of most RV rooftop mounted panels will be poor most of the time, lowering your total electric production greatly, if you had 6 or 8 panels that you "ground mount" when you get where you are going, and set up for weeks, those can be placed at a much better angle to the sun for the time of year, local geography, shade avoidance, etc. and provide much more electricity than panels that are not perfectly aligned to the sun. Just a thought, i am not sure of your expected travel pattern, sorry if i missed that in any previous post. Good luck.

[Mike90250]

OK, that clears the panels. they are past the date of the bad batch.

To test them, you can use a meter with a 10A DC scale, set the meter to measure AMPS (Current, notation is capitol letter i) Isc (current short circuit should be 8 amps, with a well aimed panel at the sun at noon. If you get 6 amps, I would call that panel good, then test the next.
Get a sacrificial set of Male & Female MC connectors that match whats on the panels cable. You DO NOT want to draw any arc or spark connecting to the panels cable, that will erode the low resistance gold plate on the contacts.

[Tiffany H]

Sorry, the pic from your tablet did not come through

IMG_20180205_102405_hdr.jpg
IMG_20180205_102317_hdr.jpg

[Mike90250]

Sorry, the pic from your tablet did not come through

[Tiffany H]

A bit of sealant ooze out is normal, it's been hardened for years and no more should extrude. What to look for is any brown tint on the white back sheet where conductors may have heated (wired with flat ribbon / copper foil tape), or viewing through the glass on the front, any browning anywhere. Can you post a pic of the sticker on the backside, that has the specs on it ?

Speaking of brown tint, (off topic) the Bounder we bought had four small panels mounted to the top already and all the cells are a dark brown. If I get the chance to take the cover off I will take pics of that aswell. They seem to still work as bad as they look.

[Mike90250]

Kc125g is the model not 120 sorry. A few of the panels appear to have what looks like silicone coming out the edges where the glass meets the metal frame. Is that normal?

A bit of sealant ooze out is normal, it's been hardened for years and no more should extrude. What to look for is any brown tint on the white back sheet where conductors may have heated (wired with flat ribbon / copper foil tape), or viewing through the glass on the front, any browning anywhere. Can you post a pic of the sticker on the backside, that has the specs on it ?