Kit vs. Build Your Own Solar System For a Pop-up Camper

[Wrybread]

I don't get why this job is so complicated, requiring professional help? Install your batteries (vented of course), your panels, a charge controller, and an inverter. Then plug that plug that you connect to shore power to your inverter. That way all your interior plugs will be fed by the inverter. When you want to connect to shore power again, unplug from your inverter and plug into shore power.

Since you don't have a battery charger in your trailer (it's important to confirm that), there shouldn't be anything else to it. And if there is a battery charger that you don't know about, your inverter will just flash the overload error and shut down, since the battery charger will be sucking more power from your inverter than the inverter can supply. But it's safer to not rely on that overload protection and to confirm that you don't have a battery charger, see below for my suggestion there.

See my post in the thread "newbie advice" for my gear recommendations. Add a Xantrex 600 watt inverter to that list.

You can certainly make the installation more elaborate, for example by installing a transfer switch that will automatically feed your wall plugs with shore power when that's plugged in, but it's not at all necessary, especially for an old trailer.

And I'm not sure I understand what type of trailer this is, but if it's a pop up and weight on the roof is an issue you might consider frameless panels.

And personally I'd add some wiring for 12 volt loads like camper lights, but that's not totally necessary and you can add it in the future as needed. Make sure you add a fusebox when you do it, let me know if you need a recommendation. And of course for efficiency you want to make sure all your lights are led or at least fluorescent (not incandescent).

And it bears repeating that you should confirm that there's no existing battery charger in the camper, or anything else that's constantly getting powered by shore power when you plug in. An easy test would be to buy a kill-a-watt meter (Amazon or most hardware stores have it for about $20) and plug your shore power into it. When you turn everything off you should see 0 watts on the kill-a-watt.

[Sunking]

Sadly, AGM batteries are capable (and have done so) of venting the same stuff as flooded batteries do, and so they need the install requirements. And maybe it's good to be able to smell when somethings rotten....

From IBC/ICC codes POV treat FLA and SLA batteries exactly the same with respect to ventilation requirements. Makes no difference. The only difference is Spill Containment measures. FLA batteries require Spill Containment, SLA does not.

As for using AGM in an RV or Camper has little if anything to do with ventilation. Just like an aircraft, spills cannot be tolerated. AGM;s were designed for aerospace and military. AGm's have a place in Solar applications, but you had better justify the expense because end of life cost is 400% higher than FLA. You had better have a good reason to do that.

[Mike90250]

Good point. Lead acid batteries off gas nasty stuff while charging. you could look into AGM batteries which do not. I think that's a common truck camper route.

Sadly, AGM batteries are capable (and have done so) of venting the same stuff as flooded batteries do, and so they need the install requirements. And maybe it's good to be able to smell when somethings rotten....

[ewarnerusa]

Good point. Lead acid batteries off gas nasty stuff while charging. you could look into AGM batteries which do not. I think that's a common truck camper route.

[NorthernFront]

An AH-HA moment, not a pop-up camping trailer but a slide in. When you install your solar system you are going to have to hook the wires that go to the truck power to your solar batteries. This will be a fairly complicated job and you will have to find a vented place to install the batteries. I really suggest that you look for a professional installation or someone very savvy in solar installations in RV's to help you, your life depends on it .

Okay thanks. Ill reach out and see if anyone in my area can help me, without screwing me over, lol.
very much appreciated.
Greg

[AWS]

An AH-HA moment, not a pop-up camping trailer but a slide in. When you install your solar system you are going to have to hook the wires that go to the truck power to your solar batteries. This will be a fairly complicated job and you will have to find a vented place to install the batteries. I really suggest that you look for a professional installation or someone very savvy in solar installations in RV's to help you, your life depends on it .

[ewarnerusa]

Here is a link to the manual. It's the first one in the list. Page 17 has the electrical system.

http://www.antiguarv.com/sc2009/brochures/1990.html

From what i see it has no battery. Kinda a crazy old setup..

Good find on the brochures. I was under the impression you were talking about a pop up trailer camper, not a slide in truck camper. But both of those style campers from your link do appear to use 12V camper appliances but rely on an on-board AC to DC converter for the 12V power supply. As you've been saying, the trailer needs to be plugged into shore power for the converter to operate. Looks like the 3-way fridge can be wired to draw 12V from the truck battery while traveling so it works from 12V alone. This is a big load for 12V which is why they say to only do it while driving so the truck's alternator can provide the current and the truck's battery doesn't get drawn down. It isn't uncommon to run the fridge run on propane while traveling, although you do hear from a minority who are opposed to that for safety reasons.

By adding a 12V solar charging system, you could do some rewiring so the camper's 12V stuff gets power from your new 2x6V in series = 12V battery rather than from the converter output. Then you don't have to worry about plugging your shore power cord into an inverter and you can go with the DC power adapters for your laptop and phone.

Or you can go with the inverter route you've been mentioning and just plug the shore power cord into it. This will be quite inefficient due to power losses in the DC to AC to DC conversion, but you probably don't have to do any rewiring of the camper's 12V system.

Either way is a retrofit for your older system. Modern systems are designed like that "12V side of life" link I provided, but your's is not quite the same. Plan carefully and good luck!

[Amy@altE]

I looked again at Google's website for the pixel phone. The charger is 18w, but the 5" pixel only draws 15w.

Ah, it's a fast charger, it charges at 15W for 15 minutes, so 0.25 hour. 15W x 0.25 hour = 3.75Wh / 12V = .31Ah.

[NorthernFront]

Well what you've described still sounds to me like the traditional 12V DC system that uses an AC to DC converter to charge the battery by plugging in to shore power. Without a battery installed, the camper would work as you've described. But if you're certain that there are no orphaned battery cables present, then I guess I'm wrong. They are usually a red and black pair or black and white. Are there fuses present in the electrical box? Circuit breakers?
You would plug your 12V adapters into 12V outlets, basically the cigarette lighter outlets like you see in a car. Modern campers usually have at least one installed in the camper. Your older model may not. You could either install some or go with your inverter route and skip the DC adapters.

Here is a link to the manual. It's the first one in the list. Page 17 has the electrical system.

http://www.antiguarv.com/sc2009/brochures/1990.html

From what i see it has no battery. Kinda a crazy old setup..

[ewarnerusa]

Thanks for the continued help.

The camper has a fridge, stove, and furnace that run on propane. It has an internal electrical box that runs the interior lights, fan for furnace, and 3 outlets. There is 2 cables on the outside. 1 that plugs in for shore power. The other is to plug into your hitch to give the external lights on camper power, and an option to power only the fridge (so food doesn't spoil and not to use gas while traveling).

If i get DC chargers, what doing plug them into if I have no inverter?

Well what you've described still sounds to me like the traditional 12V DC system that uses an AC to DC converter to charge the battery by plugging in to shore power. Without a battery installed, the camper would work as you've described. But if you're certain that there are no orphaned battery cables present, then I guess I'm wrong. They are usually a red and black pair or black and white. Are there fuses present in the electrical box? Circuit breakers?
You would plug your 12V adapters into 12V outlets, basically the cigarette lighter outlets like you see in a car. Modern campers usually have at least one installed in the camper. Your older model may not. You could either install some or go with your inverter route and skip the DC adapters.

[NorthernFront]

Yes you have missed something. 12 volts. Where are you coming up with 6-volts?

Yes should be 12, i understand now 2x 6V =12V

[NorthernFront]

Yes, an inverter changes DC to AC and the charge controller does not.. But you may not need AC power for anything if you get DC chargers for the phone and laptop. It will be cheaper than an inverter and more efficient as far as DC battery use. I'm sorry to keep nagging about this, but what gets power in the camper by plugging in the shore power cable that doesn't work when not plugged in? I'm not familiar with early 80's vintage pop up campers, but it seems unusual for there to be an electric system that didn't include a DC power system to run the camper when not plugged in.

The charge controller provides the 3 stages of smart charging for your batteries: bulk, absorption, and float. I'd consult Google or other forum members for a thorough description of these terms, but bulk is basically unrestricted current from the panels is passed to the battery until it is around 80-90% charged, absorption comes next where the charge controller restricts the current to the battery in order to hold the battery voltage constant and finish the charging, then float is for when the battery is fully charged and works like the absorption stage but at a lower voltage. That 12 Volt Side of Life webpage I linked to earlier describes it. But in addition to properly charging your battery, the charge controller will prevent it from being overcharged by switching to float mode.

Thanks for the continued help.

The camper has a fridge, stove, and furnace that run on propane. It has an internal electrical box that runs the interior lights, fan for furnace, and 3 outlets. There is 2 cables on the outside. 1 that plugs in for shore power. The other is to plug into your hitch to give the external lights on camper power, and an option to power only the fridge (so food doesn't spoil and not to use gas while traveling).

If i get DC chargers, what doing plug them into if I have no inverter?

[Sunking]

Okay so I have put together this list;

2x6V deep cycle batteries

2x120-150W panels that can be hard mounted

20A charge controller - made for 6v

Inverter - DC to AC

Am I missing anything? Any brands I should stay away from or look at?

Thanks again

Greg

Yes you have missed something. 12 volts. Where are you coming up with 6-volts?

[ewarnerusa]

Yes, an inverter changes DC to AC and the charge controller does not.. But you may not need AC power for anything if you get DC chargers for the phone and laptop. It will be cheaper than an inverter and more efficient as far as DC battery use. I'm sorry to keep nagging about this, but what gets power in the camper by plugging in the shore power cable that doesn't work when not plugged in? I'm not familiar with early 80's vintage pop up campers, but it seems unusual for there to be an electric system that didn't include a DC power system to run the camper when not plugged in.

The charge controller provides the 3 stages of smart charging for your batteries: bulk, absorption, and float. I'd consult Google or other forum members for a thorough description of these terms, but bulk is basically unrestricted current from the panels is passed to the battery until it is around 80-90% charged, absorption comes next where the charge controller restricts the current to the battery in order to hold the battery voltage constant and finish the charging, then float is for when the battery is fully charged and works like the absorption stage but at a lower voltage. That 12 Volt Side of Life webpage I linked to earlier describes it. But in addition to properly charging your battery, the charge controller will prevent it from being overcharged by switching to float mode.

[NorthernFront]

Charge controller will be for 12 volt, not 6 volt. Your two 6 volt batteries will be wired in series for an equivalent 12 volts. There is also wiring, connectors, and fusing. What will the inverter be for? You can stick with 12 volt everything with the appropriate adapters. Does your camper have its own lighting and heating system that will run off the 12V setup?

I thought I needed the inverter to change the power from DC to AC? Would the 20A controller do this? I thought the controller only stopped the batteries from over charging..