panel smackdown question

[Naptown]

But that's not because of improved efficiency, right? It's mostly just larger panels (more collection area).

Even so, it still gives economies for installation (fewer bolts to tighten, fewer electrical connections).

Actually both but mostly from increases in efficiency.
5 years ago it was hard to find a 60 cell panel over 240W
Now 270 and up are the norm all the way up to 300W
Sunpower's tend to be 96 cells and about 4" wider and 5 inches shorter than most 60 cell panels.

[russ]

Some questions about Sunpower:

1. I thought Sunpower panels had the same physical dimensions (collection area) as other panels (like the "Sunivia OPTIMUS SERIES: OPT 60 cell mono" and the "Solarworld Sunmodule Plus SW 275 mono black." If the Sunpower panels are physically larger, it's not a fair comparison. I need to compare apples to apples, right? Right - all panels have different sizes - just look at their specs

2. I am starting to learn that Sunpower panels are "special." One solar installer explained it to me using LED light bulbs as an example: you pay more upfront, but you get more performance. It seems like I should focus on the projected kWh performance over 20 or 25 years rather than the "rated wattage" of the panels. Does this sound right?

Pardon? You got hit real hard by a line of salesman's BS - any clown that starts down that road is a good one to show the door. Sunpower are premium with a premium cost - many of us see no advantage - other than to be able to brag that you have Sunpower on the roof - you have to brag as no one can see them.

[rocketcity]

Sunpower panels

Some questions about Sunpower:

1. I thought Sunpower panels had the same physical dimensions (collection area) as other panels (like the "Sunivia OPTIMUS SERIES: OPT 60 cell mono" and the "Solarworld Sunmodule Plus SW 275 mono black." If the Sunpower panels are physically larger, it's not a fair comparison. I need to compare apples to apples, right?

2. I am starting to learn that Sunpower panels are "special." One solar installer explained it to me using LED light bulbs as an example: you pay more upfront, but you get more performance. It seems like I should focus on the projected kWh performance over 20 or 25 years rather than the "rated wattage" of the panels. Does this sound right?

[pleppik]

Actually Panel wattage has been trending up.
5 years ago the norm was a 220-235 watt panel
Now 250-300 is the norm all the way up to the Sunpower 345
235's are dirt cheap right now

But that's not because of improved efficiency, right? It's mostly just larger panels (more collection area).

Even so, it still gives economies for installation (fewer bolts to tighten, fewer electrical connections).

[Naptown]

Moore's law has zero to do with solar. Look at the price over the years and the underlying cause for price decreases - nothing in common.

No big changes in efficiency are in the pipeline to residential.

Actually Panel wattage has been trending up.
5 years ago the norm was a 220-235 watt panel
Now 250-300 is the norm all the way up to the Sunpower 345
235's are dirt cheap right now

[russ]

Moore’s Law suggests that 300W+ panels will be commonplace (even commoditized) over the next couple of years.
Would you agree with that prediction? Are there even higher-watt panels around the corner?

Moore's law has zero to do with solar. Look at the price over the years and the underlying cause for price decreases - nothing in common.

No big changes in efficiency are in the pipeline to residential.

[rocketcity]

according to the IRS rules it would not count toward the 30% credit.

That's OK with me. At least the interest on the Admirals Bank loan qualifies for the mortgage interest deduction.

[Naptown]

Sunpower will have the highest watt system given the space. If you want all black you will need the 335's
You could roll the roofing into your loan but according to the IRS rules it would not count toward the 30% credit. That is maintenance not an allowable system cost

[rocketcity]

With the 3-ft. setbacks for the fire code in my area, they said they could only get 20 panels on my roof.
That comes out to a 5.3 KW system with the 265W panels from Suniva.

The economics would be better for me with a larger system (with more KW). It would be great if I could fit a 6.5KW or 7KW system in the same space on my roof.I know that RGS Real Goods is now selling 275W panels from SolarWorld and that Sunpower has 330KW+ panels.

Moore’s Law suggests that 300W+ panels will be commonplace (even commoditized) over the next couple of years.
Would you agree with that prediction? Are there even higher-watt panels around the corner?

They also said that I would have to re-roof first because I have too many layers of composite shingles.
This will require unexpected cash outlay.

Since then, I also learned about solar loans from Admirals Bank. If I am borrowing money to re-roof, maybe I ought to just BUY a system with a loan and roll the cost of the re-roof into the loan.

[rocketcity]

Now the vendor says the ET was the wrong one too.

Here are the correct panels to compare:

Trina TSM-PA05.18

http://tinyurl.com/le86wcv

Sunivia OPTIMUS SERIES: OPT 60 cell (mono) (Black frame)

http://tinyurl.com/l8aluhh

The latter panels have more watts (265)—the design would be adjusted so that the total power for the system would be the same.
My wife and I prefer these, because the sleeker, blacker look.

Sunivia also makes a related panel (with the white diamond dots) that is definitely NOT acceptable to us.
Here’s a link that shows both models: http://tinyurl.com/cpz5o2v

[rocketcity]

Actually, forget the TSM-PC05 and the TSM-PA05.

The vendor now says this will be the Trina panel option:
Trina TSM-PA05.18

http://tinyurl.com/le86wcv

So please direct your comments to this Trina vs. the ET:
ET BLACK MODULE Polycrystalline ET-P660245BB 245W

http://tinyurl.com/l5ufbgq

Thanks!

[rocketcity]

Aesthetics are a big deal in my family, so we prefer the black frames.
Do the Trinas also come in a black frame?

I am told that black frames get hotter and less productive. What percentage of productivity will I lose if I use black instead of aluminum here in Marin County, north of San Francisco?

Also: What's the difference between TSM-PC05 and TSM-PA05?

[rocketcity]

One more time:

Trina TSM-PC05 & TSM-PA05 245W:

http://tinyurl.com/lyzba3s

ET BLACK MODULE Polycrystalline ET-P660245BB 245W

http://tinyurl.com/l5ufbgq

[rocketcity]

OOPS!--Thanks for pointing that out Rich!

Let me try that again:

Trina TSM-PC05 & TSM-PA05 245W:
http://www.trinasolar.com/HtmlData/d...t_Dec12_EN.pdf

ET BLACK MODULE Polycrystalline ET-P660245BB 245W

http://www.etsolar.com/upload/Downlo...1908184582.pdf

[Naptown]

The specs are identical as you posted the same panel spec twice