Connecting the charge controller

[PNjunction]

.. Result - I am running a MUCH better charge controller with the morningstars, with no noise that I can detect on my Icom receiver without using any sort of ferrites or filtering. I have no first-hand experience beyond the low-current sunguards or sunsavers, so can only speak for those that I do have.

replying to myself: not a good sign.

Note: The author of the emergency power book may have been referring to the Morningstar Tristar pwm, where telcom users experiencing any noise from the LOAD terminals may convert back to an on/off type as a temporary measure. I think in that case, the first measure would be to NOT tie your loads to any CC's load terminals, run from the battery directly, and return to the pwm setting as discussed many times elsewhere here.

Oddly enough, this makes me confident in the tristar pwm should I want to go beyond the sunguard or sunsaver series for my HF monitoring.

[PNjunction]

... As for RFI, then if you run into that means you have a cheap PWM controller, the batteries are huge capacitors that will filter out any line noise. Radiated noise can be a issue but battery location has nothing to do with that.

That was one of my main concerns also since I do shortwave monitoring from 160-10 meters. The good news is that I have not detected any noise from the small inexpensive Morningstar Sunguard or Sunsaver pwm charge controllers - and that is with portable antennas only a few feet away from the CC. Once I spun across the bands with the morningstars, the old on/off shunt cc's went into the trash. (saved for recycling anyway)

I was hesitant at first since one of my radio emergency power books mentions an option on one of the morningstar controllers has a jumper to turn it into a plain old on/off controller should TELCO users observe any noise. This kind of cast a question about pwm, and left this reader thinking that only old-style on/off shunt controllers are the way to go when dealing with HF monitoring. But I figured that this is just a duty-cycle on/off switch operating much faster and more efficiently than the old on/off shunt type, and not doing any sort of mppt conversion. Perhaps the author hasn't tried one first-hand.

Once operating from my much larger antennas, new noises would crop up from time to time, and I was certain it was due to the new CC's, only to disconnect them and find the new noises are NOT coming from the morningstar themselves, leaving me on a rfi hunt external to the solar setup.

Result - I am running a MUCH better charge controller with the morningstars, with no noise that I can detect on my Icom receiver without using any sort of ferrites or filtering. I have no first-hand experience beyond the low-current sunguards or sunsavers, so can only speak for those that I do have.

[RussN9ZP]

Batteries in series are much more robust than batteries in parallel.

Long article with the math here:

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

If you must parallel them - do it correctly, on the Diagonal.

But Series is better. 2v, 4v, 6v & 8v are all normal
sizes made to create series strings of desired capacity.

Mike, thanks for the info.

[Mike90250]

Cool learned something else new. Thanks.

Batteries in series are much more robust than batteries in parallel.

Long article with the math here:

http://www.smartgauge.co.uk/batt_con.html

If you must parallel them - do it correctly, on the Diagonal.

But Series is better. 2v, 4v, 6v & 8v are all normal
sizes made to create series strings of desired capacity.

[RussN9ZP]

Weightand size limitations. A 12 volt battery consist of 6-cells, and amp hour capacity is directly proportional to physical weight and size.

So let's say you want 12 volt at 1000 AH. Well there is no such thing as 12 volt 1000 AH battery as it would weigh in around 1500 pounds and be physically large. Instead you would likely choose either 2 volt or 4 volt batteries. A single 2 volt 1000 AH cell weighs in around 180 to 200 pounds.

Largest cells I know of are made by C&D MCT-II they are 2 volt 4000 AH cells and each cell weighs around 900 pounds. We use a lot of them in telephone offices on - 48 VDC power plants .

EDIT NOTE I forgot about railroad batteries. They do make up to a 950 AH 12 volt battery. The Rolls 16CH35P is a 12 volt 950 AH model and weighs in at 1600 pounds. They are used for electric yard cars to move box cars around the train yard configured in 600 volt motors.

Cool learned something else new. Thanks.

[Sunking]

Why is it better to use 6V batteries over 12V batteries?

Weightand size limitations. A 12 volt battery consist of 6-cells, and amp hour capacity is directly proportional to physical weight and size.

So let's say you want 12 volt at 1000 AH. Well there is no such thing as 12 volt 1000 AH battery as it would weigh in around 1500 pounds and be physically large. Instead you would likely choose either 2 volt or 4 volt batteries. A single 2 volt 1000 AH cell weighs in around 180 to 200 pounds.

Largest cells I know of are made by C&D MCT-II they are 2 volt 4000 AH cells and each cell weighs around 900 pounds. We use a lot of them in telephone offices on - 48 VDC power plants .

EDIT NOTE I forgot about railroad batteries. They do make up to a 950 AH 12 volt battery. The Rolls 16CH35P is a 12 volt 950 AH model and weighs in at 1600 pounds. They are used for electric yard cars to move box cars around the train yard configured in 600 volt motors.

[RussN9ZP]

No Sir please do not do that. When I made that recommendation I assumed you would only use a single 12 volt battery.

You want to avoid parallel batteries at all cost. So if you want 2 or 3 times the capacity, buy cells that meet that requirement so as to only use 1 single battery string. The Trojan 27 TMX is a 100 AH 12 volt battery. If you want 200 or 300 AH you are going to want to use a different model. More then likely you will be looking at 6 Volt batteries using 2 in series.

If they will be stationary and inside the shack please consider Flooded lead acid types because they cost considerable less than AGM. If mobile then yes look at AGM.

For example the Trojan T-105RE is a 6 volt 225 AH Flooded Lead Acid battery. If you need some suggestions please ask but good names to look for are Trojan RE series, Deka, Crown, and Rolls. If you want AGM look at Concord and Deka.

Why is it better to use 6V batteries over 12V batteries?

[Sunking]

Dereck, thanks again for answering my many questions. My system right now will consist of two or three of those 27 TMX's you recommended.

No Sir please do not do that. When I made that recommendation I assumed you would only use a single 12 volt battery.

You want to avoid parallel batteries at all cost. So if you want 2 or 3 times the capacity, buy cells that meet that requirement so as to only use 1 single battery string. The Trojan 27 TMX is a 100 AH 12 volt battery. If you want 200 or 300 AH you are going to want to use a different model. More then likely you will be looking at 6 Volt batteries using 2 in series.

If they will be stationary and inside the shack please consider Flooded lead acid types because they cost considerable less than AGM. If mobile then yes look at AGM.

For example the Trojan T-105RE is a 6 volt 225 AH Flooded Lead Acid battery. If you need some suggestions please ask but good names to look for are Trojan RE series, Deka, Crown, and Rolls. If you want AGM look at Concord and Deka.

[RussN9ZP]

Russ I use 2 T-105RE Flooded lead acid batteries in my shack. There is no gassing issue for you to be worried about. I build DC plants for telephone offices. -48Vdc 40,000 AH plants with huge Flooded Lead Acid batteries in High Rise buildings next to office space. No special ventilation is required. Just a hydrogen detector and exhaust fan if detected. In 33 years not one alarm has gone off requiring ventilation.

You said SLA batteries. they do not vent unless way over abused, and even if they did highly unlikely the room would ever reach 4% or more hydrogen saturation volume to ignite.

As for RFI, then if you run into that means you have a cheap PWM controller, the batteries are huge capacitors that will filter out any line noise. Radiated noise can be a issue but battery location has nothing to do with that.

Dereck, thanks again for answering my many questions. My system right now will consist of two or three of those 27 TMX's you recommended. For a couple weeks im going to continue with the HF panels/charge controller plus alittle help from the grid powered battery charger. My immediate future plans are a new charge controller and 200 watt panel when the hobby money replenishes. Its still hard to gauge my power needs at this point but i should be good with this set up. I really dont have a need for an inverter set up right now. All my systems are 12V.

[Sunking]

I have sealed lead acids and was concerned with keeping them in there current location under my desk due to gassing. Id much rather keep them inside.

Russ I use 2 T-105RE Flooded lead acid batteries in my shack. There is no gassing issue for you to be worried about. I build DC plants for telephone offices. -48Vdc 40,000 AH plants with huge Flooded Lead Acid batteries in High Rise buildings next to office space. No special ventilation is required. Just a hydrogen detector and exhaust fan if detected. In 33 years not one alarm has gone off requiring ventilation.

You said SLA batteries. they do not vent unless way over abused, and even if they did highly unlikely the room would ever reach 4% or more hydrogen saturation volume to ignite.

As for RFI, then if you run into that means you have a cheap PWM controller, the batteries are huge capacitors that will filter out any line noise. Radiated noise can be a issue but battery location has nothing to do with that.

[RussN9ZP]

4) charge voltage. May be as high as 15 or 16v when in a EQ cycle. Can your gear take that high? Maybe a couple, switchable diodes to drop it, or a DC-DC precision supply.

For the moment im only using HF panels and controller which doesn't go higher then 14.5 volts. Once i change over to a different controller and panels i will make sure to monitor the voltage before hooking up my gear. I have been looking into a couple different DC to DC supply's which will hold the voltage at the suggested 13.8V.

[Mike90250]

4) charge voltage. May be as high as 15 or 16v when in a EQ cycle. Can your gear take that high? Maybe a couple, switchable diodes to drop it, or a DC-DC precision supply.

[RussN9ZP]

Why would you put your batteries outside? They need to be inside kept dry, cool, and treated with TLC. There is no danger from gassing especially if they are AGM. Leaving them outside in the elements will cuts years of life from them.

You need to keep the distance from batteries to load buss as hort as possible

KF5LJW

73 to you.

SK

I have sealed lead acids and was concerned with keeping them in there current location under my desk due to gassing. Id much rather keep them inside.

[RussN9ZP]

The third reason sounds like the best of all. I dont need any RF interference coming over my radios from the controller. The + and - buss bars will be inside the room and the 4 gauge main wires will run from the buss bars out to the battery bank. I wanted to run the charge control wires from the charge controller to the buss bars so i didn't have to run another set of wires back out to the battery bank.

[Sunking]

My set up will consist of my battery bank set up outside my HAM radio shack.

Why would you put your batteries outside? They need to be inside kept dry, cool, and treated with TLC. There is no danger from gassing especially if they are AGM. Leaving them outside in the elements will cuts years of life from them.

You need to keep the distance from batteries to load buss as hort as possible

KF5LJW

73 to you.

SK