Grid tied inverter 110V VS 220V ?

[computerpc101]

I am a beginner for Grid tied inverter, In My Area, Solar panels is a wasting money project.

I am still confuse that Why some cheap Grid tied inverter with 110V output? you can plug in wall (110V) directly as you can see on Utube video. and Some are 220 Volts which need extra wiring to 3 phase power box.

My question is that
1). If I am using revisable net meter, Will 110 Volts model work?
2). If I am using revisable net meter, Will 220 Volts model work?
3). For basic UP inverter design, Is 110 Volts model has slightly higher effective then 220V model?
4). For 1.5KW and below application, Which one work better and why?
5). For 5KW application, Which one work better and why?

[Sunking]

It does not matter, those plug-in inverters cannot be installed in any code compliant manner.

Any UL1741 listed inverter will likely be 240 volts for single phase system. There are some Hybrid inverters that operate at 120 volts, but we will not go there. But to answer all your questions is Dr Georg Ohm and his twelve laws most notable Power = Voltage x Current

[russ]

If anyone can provide documentation for a UL1741 listed 120V inverter we would like to see the UL paper.

The term has to be UL listed - UL compliant is a meaningless term used to confuse people.

In the engineering world things are generally digital - meaning yes or no - so far the 120 volt inverters are on the no side. In the green world and on youtube things are fuzzy, meaning they are what people want them to be.

Russ

[peakbagger]

Not to be difficult but my Advanced Energy GC -1000 was UL 1471 approved back in 2002 (knock on wood its still running). It is a 120 volt unit. It definitely was not represented as a plug in inverter and is not installed that way. But in theory it technically if not legally could be. I think most of them went out of service awhile ago as reportedly they didnt like to run overloaded and it was popular to install 1200 watts of panels on a 1000 watt inverter. The company went bust many years ago although another firm appears to have bought the name and still makes inverters with the same name. I had to submit documents at the time to the local utility for approval.

I can proably did through my paperwork and find a listing number if you really want it.

[computerpc101]

I work in Saw mill before, When I deal with commercial products, It costs so much higher but if it is in consumer product, it costs a lot less.

You may hate those new low power products.

Some new low power Grid tie inverters are really flexible, They are in pending of UL1471 compliant?(status of our UL1471 application is currently pending, not sure what is mean)?, because USA is big market and Grid tie inverter is high profit area in compare to Computer power supply( 80% circuit is same as Grid tie inverter).

They can automatic switching between 90V-130V and 180V-245V depend on how you plug it or how you design your circuit, If you change plan, there are no need to buy another new inverter.

Their PLL circuit can automatic Sync to 50HZ as well as 60Hz, no need for those commercial product that you need to change firmware to switching between 50Hz/60Hz.

[Naptown]

If anyone can provide documentation for a UL1741 listed 120V inverter we would like to see the UL paper.

The term has to be UL listed - UL compliant is a meaningless term used to confuse people.

In the engineering world things are generally digital - meaning yes or no - so far the 120 volt inverters are on the no side. In the green world and on youtube things are fuzzy, meaning they are what people want them to be.

Russ

Actually Outback I believe makes several Some of which I believe are used in hybrid systems. It takes 2 to produce 240V

[Sunking]

They are in pending of UL1471 compliant?(status of our UL1471 application is currently pending, not sure what is mean)?

It is meaningless Marketing mumbo jumbo, meaning it will never be UL listed

They can automatic switching between 90V-130V and 180V-245V depend on how you plug it or how you design your circuit, If you change plan, there are no need to buy another new inverter.

I think you are talking about Computer Switch Mode Power Supplies? Computer PS are completely different than a GTI. It takes the line 60 Hz AC and immediately rectifies it to DC, and then converts it to a high frequency AC, through a transformer, then rectifies it back to the various DC voltages needed for the puter. A GTI input is DC current, and converted to AC current.

[russ]

If anyone can provide documentation for a UL1741 listed 120V inverter we would like to see the UL paper.

The term has to be UL listed - UL compliant is a meaningless term used to confuse people.

In the engineering world things are generally digital - meaning yes or no - so far the 120 volt inverters are on the no side. In the green world and on youtube things are fuzzy, meaning they are what people want them to be.

Russ

Think I asked the wrong question - a 120 volt output inverter that is suitable for a single panel.

[computerpc101]

Sometime, electronic is confusing, and depend on how your look it up, For example, Impedance and resistance.

Computer power supply:
- AC to DC inverter
* it contains High frequency transformer.
with control using either hardware and/or micro-controller to slowly sense :
* Is input 110 or 220V AC ? ( Fast)
* Is output DC 12volts, 5 volts, -12, -5 ? (DC feedback, slow )
* Is output overloaded? (DC feedback, slow)

Grid tie inverter:
- DC to AC or AC to AC inverter
* it contains high frequency transformer.
with control using hardware and micro-controller :
* Square wave filter to produce sine wave ( Just simple LC circuit)
* ( PWM)output square ware voltage adjust on almost each portion of high frequency waveform to produce low frequency Sine wave alike. (fast feedback)
* Is output AC 220 volts? ( Slowly feedback)
* What input DC/AC impedance/resistance is? (Slow feedback)
* MPPT function feedback base of input impedance/resistance (Slow feedback)
* Power company's power Line frequency sample/tracking/cutoff/voltage feedback. ( Slow feedback)
* Is output reach maximum power/overload? ( slow feedback)
* Simple AI function for other house keeping.

I guess that I am asking for many dump questions, I have seen that solar energy from commercial ( High price) products slowly moving to lower price consumer products, For example, we can buy them in Home depot and Costco.

I find that most of those commercial GTI inverter are 220/240 Volts.

you can buy cheap Ebay Chinese GTI invertor, That "Power Jack" model is very low quality and dominated EBay.
For example:

3000Watts "Power jack" GTI inverter
- $900 Ebay

3000 Watts Germany "Sunny boy" GTI inverter
-$1600

Although Power Jack is much cheaper than Sunny boy, It is not UL1471 listed, and overated it power rating, One user mentioned that 6 of his Power Jack GTI was burned out within one year, Real world power efficiency is between 82% to 85% while Sunny Boy is near 90+% range, Waste energy = Waste money = over heated = GTI burned out.

One problem with Sunny boy 3000W GTI is that, His input is High DC 200 voltage, It means that you have to connect many solar panel in series to produce that high voltage.

I saw a Utube video, One Guy in Hong Kong meantioned that their power rate is $HK88/KWH = $14/KWH US, and I live in Canada where power rate is only 6 cents/Kwh, That HK guy, He pluged in his GTI to wall with his 16 Watts solar panel for 2 hours and he mentioned that he saved $1.

[Sunking]

One problem with Sunny boy 3000W GTI is that, His input is High DC 200 voltage, It means that you have to connect many solar panel in series to produce that high voltage.

Any grid tied inverter worth having will be high voltage DC, above 200 and just below 600. Commercial systems will be in the thousands of volts. Last thing in the world you want is low voltage. Why do you think electric utilities use very high voltages?

I saw a Utube video, One Guy in Hong Kong meantioned that their power rate is $HK88/KWH = $14/KWH US, and I live in Canada where power rate is only 6 cents/Kwh, That HK guy, He pluged in his GTI to wall with his 16 Watts solar panel for 2 hours and he mentioned that he saved $1.

I do not believe one single word of that. Well I believe you pay 6-cents/Kwh for electricity.

[russ]

If you see anything that looks good on youtube it is necessary to do some research and try to find in the real world.

Most of the time you can not do so as the item was either junk, not legal or a scam.

People post a lot of silly garbage on youtube as there is no control.

[computerpc101]

Any grid tied inverter worth having will be high voltage DC, above 200 and just below 600. Commercial systems will be in the thousands of volts. Last thing in the world you want is low voltage. Why do you think electric utilities use very high voltages?


I do not believe one single word of that. Well I believe you pay 6-cents/Kwh for electricity.

I make a mistake, It should be HK88cents/KWh = US14Cent/KWH

Tonga = US57Cent/KWH
Danmark = US 41Cent/KWh
Germany = US 37Cent/KWH
Ukraine = 3.05cent (first 150kWh), 3.95cent /KWH
Iceland = 3.93cent/Kwh

On Utube, I saw inside of them, Those troublesome GTI, they use High frequency switching FE-transfomers, ( Widely use in low cost Computer power supply), One FE-Transfomer = 300W, 2 fe-transformer = 600W and 4 fe-transformer = 1200W, They are very light weight and inexpensive but with many problems.

Good Grid tie inverter use high quality low frequency transformer, They are much heavier but their efficiency reach 95% at full rated power and meet CEC standard.

[Evanpnz]

It is meaningless Marketing mumbo jumbo, meaning it will never be UL listed I think you are talking about Computer Switch Mode Power Supplies? Computer PS are completely different than a GTI. It takes the line 60 Hz AC and immediately rectifies it to DC, and then converts it to a high frequency AC, through a transformer, then rectifies it back to the various DC voltages needed for the puter. A GTI input is DC current, and converted to AC current.

Probably he's talking about UPS' but in either case his point is valid - 80 percent of the circuitry is the same, even though the power flow/functional block diagram may be slightly different.

It's all (re)application of well proven technology. Have fun!

[Sunking]

Probably he's talking about UPS' but in either case his point is valid - 80 percent of the circuitry is the same, even though the power flow/functional block diagram may be slightly different.

It's all (re)application of well proven technology. Have fun!

Your first post and you dug up a 3 year old dead thread. You are now being watched closely.