Odyssey delays new chargers from October to December

[lkruper]

http://www.odysseybattery.com/chargers.aspx

Was supposed to happen this month.... what's going on?

[Mike90250]

Marketing is always ahead of engineering

[inetdog]

Marketing is always ahead of engineering

But as the US led watch industry discovered, losing their entire market to the Japanese:

"You can't slip Christmas!"

[lkruper]

They are here

But as the US led watch industry discovered, losing their entire market to the Japanese:

"You can't slip Christmas!"

Whats changed?

http://shop.odysseybattery.com/c/chargers_odyssey

[Sunking]

Heey guy there is nothing special about those chargers. I would never buy one because they are a uni-tasker. If it were me, and it is what I have done is buy a battery charger that can charge any battery type of today and tomorrow. The only limitation is how large and how high of a voltage is required. A 1500 watt charger can charge up to a 144 volt @ 100 AH, or as small as a single ceell NiCd 1 AH battery and everything in between and any chemistry.

[Sunking]

Whats changed?

http://shop.odysseybattery.com/c/chargers_odyssey

New label and higher price.

[lkruper]

New label and higher price.

I was thinking they might somehow improve them. Adding temperature compensation would be nice.

[Sunking]

I was thinking they might somehow improve them. Adding temperature compensation would be nice.

They likely added a new whistle or bell. AGM batteries are treated much like Lithium on the charge side. Difference is how the charge is terminated. Both are charged with a CC/CV algorithm. Charge rates are just about completely the same with a fairly wide window of C/2 to C/12. The set point voltage is very similar, say 14 volts on a 12 volt battery. Both batteries are fully charged when current tapers to C/20 or 3 to 5% of C. Difference is Lithium is disconnected when fully charged. AGM can be then floated by reducing the voltage to roughly 13.2 volts to keep thee battery fully charged until used. FLA same as AGM except the voltage set point is just a little higher during charge and float.

If time is of no issue AGM and FLA is extremely simple as all it takes is a Float Charge. That is still a CC/CV algorithm. It is the method used by all utilities, communications, and mission critical systems like UPS, life support, Emergency stand-by, and military communications. Float charging is the kindest gentlest method there is for all lead acid batteries. Down side is it takes longer to saturate the electrolyte. Both 3-stage and Float get to 80% SOC, Float just takes longer to get to 100% because you are not forcing current into the battery. Float charge batteries rarely ever use any water. Most of the water loss is evaporation, where all others are gassing because you have to run higher voltages to pump the current in which raises the voltage to gassing levels. Great if you want to make hydrogen to burn or oxygen to breath in a submarine.

[PNjunction]

AGM can be then floated by reducing the voltage to roughly 13.2 volts to keep thee battery fully charged until used. FLA same as AGM except the voltage set point is just a little higher during charge and float.

This is part of the reason the Enersys / Odyssey chargers exist - their requirement is very strict at 13.5 - 13.6v float, and 13.2v is verboten. Warranty void at that point. Ah, the old battery-tender vs Enersys/Odyssey drama a few years back.....

[lkruper]

This is part of the reason the Enersys / Odyssey chargers exist - their requirement is very strict at 13.5 - 13.6v float, and 13.2v is verboten. Warranty void at that point. Ah, the old battery-tender vs Enersys/Odyssey drama a few years back.....

I have read that Sears has a monthly promotion called Friends and Family that gives 20% off everything (Now through Nov 10). So a Diehard Platinum would be 309.99 X .8 = 247.99 for a group 31 100AH battery. They also sell Odyssey as well.

Also Odyssey on their web site has a 20% sale with a 31-PC2150MJT for $325.

[Sunking]

This is part of the reason the Enersys / Odyssey chargers exist - their requirement is very strict at 13.5 - 13.6v float, and 13.2v is verboten. Warranty void at that point. Ah, the old battery-tender vs Enersys/Odyssey drama a few years back.....

Just guessed at it. However it clearly makes my point of why I would never buy such a charger that can only charge one battery. As you know there is nothing magical or proprietary to charging Pb batteries. NiCd and NiMh are the only types that use unique algorithms using Delta V and/or Delta T cut-off points if you want to fact charge. Otherwise just put them on CC charger and charge at C/20 until ready to use.

[SunEagle]

I have read that Sears has a monthly promotion called Friends and Family that gives 20% off everything (Now through Nov 10). So a Diehard Platinum would be 309.99 X .8 = 247.99 for a group 31 100AH battery. They also sell Odyssey as well.

Also Odyssey on their web site has a 20% sale with a 31-PC2150MJT for $325.

What is the listed cycle rate and DOD% for that Diehard?

My estimation comes to around $0.80/kWh if I used 3.5 year life (~1275 cycles) at 20% daily DOD.

[lkruper]

What is the listed cycle rate and DOD% for that Diehard?

My estimation comes to around $0.80/kWh if I used 3.5 year life (~1275 cycles) at 20% daily DOD.

These are Odyssey and they are listed as 400 cycles at 80%. However, in float for backup they are up in the 7 to 10 year life.

Correction: 8-12 year Design Life in float and 3-10 year service life.

[PNjunction]

Watch out for this catch-22 with *any* smart charger in regards to float:

So you think you are fully charged with solar - perhaps you are even running the max-smoke model with your charge controller.

BUT, you are really only at say 98% SOC.

Now, you put on your smart charger, and it dutifully and very quickly climbs through bulk, absorb, and then back to float.

LOOK OUT. Because of the initial very high soc, the charger goes through the motions so quickly, that in essence you are maintaining at less than 100% charged! This is especially so since most "float" voltages are not at 13.8v, but something lower, like 13.6 (what odyssey wants) or even down to 13.2v (battery tender). And over time, this takes it's toll since at these lower voltages, ONLY MAINTAINING, and not charging is taking place, which if you aren't fully charged in the first place is an issue. On the flip side, 13.8v might be considered too high for total long-term as well - as seen by various chargers saying that lower float voltages are best.

My entire box full of smart chargers from various manufacturers can be fooled by this. Even the ones that test thing on a regular basis - they may be waiting far too long since they are primarily looking for parasitic loads, or waiting for a more dramatic drop. That might be too long a period to prevent sulfation.

So - the moral of the story here is that if you are going to put a battery on standby / float status, and you think you are fully charged - don't bet on it. The best thing to do is to do at LEAST a 10% or more discharge, and THEN let the charger go through the normal motions. In essence, we're trying to make sure that a quality charger will get in the proper amount of absorb before it drops to a "maintenance" voltage, rather than just racing by absorb when presented with what *looks* like it is fully charged.

We're back to the exercise it once in awhile deal.

[PNjunction]

What is the listed cycle rate and DOD% for that Diehard?
My estimation comes to around $0.80/kWh if I used 3.5 year life (~1275 cycles) at 20% daily DOD.

The Diehard Platinum is a rebadged Odyssey so the specs are the same. IF you can still find them. Just be attentive to not get a 4 year old shelf-queen from a store that may be having issues.

For your needs, you may be able to get a better deal with the Enersys "EP" series / Genesis series. Basically the same great internals, but the casing is not meant for 4x4 off road shock and vibration. Currently 87ah is the highest in this series, but that would mean a bit more than your planned 20% DOD with the other battery - however the EP series might be cheaper than the off the shelf Odyssey, since it is not really designed for automotive shock / vibration. Note that the "XE" series, which looks similar, IS rated for high shock and vibration, and of course you may be paying more for that depending on distributor.

http://www.enersys-emea.com/reserve/...=e&app_code=43

Note that the commonly seen 0.40C charge requirement is when doing cyclic duty, AND taking them down to 80% DOD which you probably won't be doing! Some think that this is a requirement at all DOD's, but no. At 50% DOD, you can be looking at only 0.3 to perhaps 0.2C minimum for best results -- OR the 0.4C minimum can be run the entire way to absorb if you just don't have enough solar insolation and a genny or large bank account for a huge panel array.

Caution! An Enersys agm is a gateway battery that can lead to the dark alleys of LiFePo4 when you become addicted to the performance. Even if you sneak home a lowly PC-545, and hammer it, you'll be hooked on pure-lead. You've been warned.

Be sure you also get terminals if you need them depending on model.