Solar in Africa

[Sunking]

I was hoping to tap into the years of experience here to learn about how users with the same kinds of load requirements have managed,

That is why you are catching flack. People off-grid do not have the kind of loads you are wanting. They do not have air conditioning, electric hot water, wall sized TV's, or multiple computers. You are only wanting to hear what you want to hear.

We are not trying to beat you down, we are trying to make you understand and save you from making a big mistake. If you go off-grid with what you want, you will learn a very hard expensive lesson, and wished you had listened. If you want to go off-grid is going to requires a major life style change.

[DanKegel]

Sunking's right here. Solar is not ready to be a drop-in replacement for a genset yet.

In the US, solar power became popular as a replacement for non-heating-and-cooling
loads, and only by using the grid as subsidized free storage. Take away the
subsidized free storage, and solar would initially be a lot less popular in the US.
That's exactly what is happening, slowly; as the price of solar continues to
fall, it will become economical again even without subsidized storage.

That point is several years away. Once we reach it, solar will be
much economical for areas without grids than it is currently.

The #1 thing you can do to get ready for that day is to
work aggressively to increase energy efficiency. Figure out
how to run a building with half as much diesel fuel. Once you have done
that, you're a lot closer to solar paying off.

[juju]

That is why you are catching flack. People off-grid do not have the kind of loads you are wanting. They do not have air conditioning, electric hot water, wall sized TV's, or multiple computers. You are only wanting to hear what you want to hear.

Not true - I am truly impressed by the knowledge here and want to learn from it. But take for example what is being said here - the implication is that anyone in Africa with a load requirement beyond powering a few household items should not even consider solar due to the massive cost of batteries the resultant system will demand. So for the bank looking for solutions to phase out its inefficient generators that are being run almost all day, there is no solar solution available. The bank is an extreme example in this case - but still, the argument here is that, it is still cost effective to run those massive gas powered generators all day vs going solar, if not at least to power some of their critical systems like IT systems. Same logic applies to the home too. Just saying its going to cost you an arm and a leg so forget it doesn't seem like a solution you'd recommend to the bank if they approached you to find a solution. A full blown solar system might not be the solution due to the cost of batteries as previously mentioned. But at least, a halfway solution, coupled with some of the system management ideas @pleppik suggested might go some ways.

[juju]

Sunking's right here. Solar is not ready to be a drop-in replacement for a genset yet.

In the US, solar power became popular as a replacement for non-heating-and-cooling
loads, and only by using the grid as subsidized free storage. Take away the
subsidized free storage, and solar would initially be a lot less popular in the US.
That's exactly what is happening, slowly; as the price of solar continues to
fall, it will become economical again even without subsidized storage.

That point is several years away. Once we reach it, solar will be
much economical for areas without grids than it is currently.

The #1 thing you can do to get ready for that day is to
work aggressively to increase energy efficiency. Figure out
how to run a building with half as much diesel fuel. Once you have done
that, you're a lot closer to solar paying off.

In Europe, where a comparable system costs about half of what it cost here in the US, that parity is almost achieved. The American pricing model is the most expensive you can find globally - I think. ( someone correct me if I am wrong ).

[DanKegel]

a halfway solution, coupled with some of the system management ideas @pleppik suggested might go some ways.

Yes. And early adopters should pilot these ideas to get experience with them now,
and learn firsthand what kind of changes need to be made before solar will pay off.
Along the way, some of these ideas can be deployed early, without solar, to save on
diesel fuel.

[juju]

Yes. And early adopters should pilot these ideas to get experience with them now,
and learn firsthand what kind of changes need to be made before solar will pay off.
Along the way, some of these ideas can be deployed early, without solar, to save on
diesel fuel.

Agreed. That is why I am here. I am an early adopter. I am looking to find out if there are more efficient ways to manage the load requirement I stated. - using timers, maybe use DC type equipment in some cases, run some equipment during day time, change to LEDs e.t.c

[J.P.M.]

Agreed. That is why I am here. I am an early adopter. I am looking to find out if there are more efficient ways to manage the load requirement I stated. - using timers, maybe use DC type equipment in some cases, run some equipment during day time, change to LEDs e.t.c

Q: Why does using load management techniques that have been around for a very long time, and some common sense make someone an early adoptor ?

[DanKegel]

Q: Why does using load management techniques that have been around for a very long time, and some common sense make someone an early adoptor ?

He's an early adopter of solar; the dream of solar is motivating him to pay attention to what are now common sense efficiency considerations.

In fairness, though, energy efficiency wasn't always considered common sense, and is still a bit suspect in some political circles.

[J.P.M.]

He's an early adopter of solar; the dream of solar is motivating him to pay attention to what are now common sense efficiency considerations.

In fairness, though, energy efficiency wasn't always considered common sense, and is still a bit suspect in some political circles.

IMO, the common sense of energy efficiency is a corollary to the many ways of not wasting stuff I learned in childhood. Like most stuff, it ain't rocket science. Like, turn out the lights, close the door, use your head, etc.

I don't buy the idea that it wasn't always considered common sense. That's B.S. to me - at least for someone with at least one eye and one balloon knot.

As for using the words "common sense" and "political", I'd restrict using them in the same sentence to convey opposite sense.

[DanKegel]

I don't buy the idea that it wasn't always considered common sense. That's B.S. to me - at least for someone with at least one eye and one balloon knot.

As for using the words "common sense" and "political", I'd restrict using them in the same sentence to convey opposite sense.

See

http://www.midwestenergynews.com/2014/12/12/what-will-republican-victories-mean-for-energy-efficiency/

[J.P.M.]

See

http://www.midwestenergynews.com/201...gy-efficiency/

Why ?

[Sunking]

In Europe, where a comparable system costs about half of what it cost here in the US, that parity is almost achieved. The American pricing model is the most expensive you can find globally - I think. ( someone correct me if I am wrong ).

That is because your neighbors are forced to pick up most of the expense for the free-loaders.

[DanKegel]

Why ?

It describes efforts by Republican governors to roll back energy efficiency programs.
Evidently if it involves taxes or regulation, Republicans are against it, even if it's for something commonsense like energy efficiency.

[juju]

That is because your neighbors are forced to pick up most of the expense for the free-loaders.

I think it has more to do with higher BOS costs here in the US - projected in some cases to be about 60% of entire system costs.

[Sunking]

It describes efforts by Republican governors to roll back energy efficiency programs.
Evidently if it involves taxes or regulation, Republicans are against it, even if it's for something commonsense like energy efficiency.

Why are you so stupid it takes the government to tell you how to save energy and money? Why should you use my money to tell you that? Your parents should have taught you that very simple lesson already. Or are they stupid too? So you want a Nanny State Government.