Please HELP me not burn my camper down!

[bulldrummerbullies]

What are you talking about? Any engineer knows this. Manufactures can make the box safe, but they cannot fix stupid people who buy them. Secondly if you look at the Inverters most are not listed by any testing agency. They do not have to be because they are not intended to be used in premises wiring under authority having jurisdiction. The Public is ignorant and can sold just about anything. How do you think Obama got elected.

sunking back off:Where do you get this stuff from firebomb. The guy only has 400 watts your are not going to lost your job He just has a trailer and is trying to live. The xantrex is the most polar controller for small 400 watt system . I know it is not high tect . but it is idea for 400 watts and if he is in the south. it dose not have the 30- to 40% lose that is being clamed .Also the mppt have actual loss clams of input to out put loss in the 10 to 15 % range true or not who knows but I know 40% is wrong. The xantrex 60 only cost $145.00 and mppt cost $400 to $500.00 besides lets help the guy with your knowledge tell him how tracing would increase his out put. I have see Vets on disability manually move the panels every day 3 to 4 times because they could only buy a few panels.
The xantrex charge controllers are inexpensive , usually selling for less than $150;PWM charge controllers are available in sizes up to 60 amps ;PWM charge controllers are durable , most with passive heat sink style cooling Xantrex charge controllers are versatile and reliable. The C60 is a 100% solid state, microprocessor-driven controller which is UL and cUL listed. not a fire bomb
Where do you get this stuff from firebomb. The guy only has 400 watts your are not going to lost your job He just has a trailer and is trying to live. The xantrex is the most polar controller for small 400 watt system . I know it is not high tect . but it is idea for 400 watts and if he is in the south. it dose not have the 30- to 40% lose that is being clamed .Also the mppt have actual loss clams of input to out put loss in the 10 to 15 % range true or not the who knows but I know 40% is wrong. The xantrex 60 only cost $145.00 and mppt cost $400 to $500.00 besides lets help the guy with your knowledge tell him how tracing would increase his out put.
The xantrex charge controllers are inexpensive , usually selling for less than $150;PWM charge controllers are available in sizes up to 60 amps ;PWM charge controllers are durable , most with passive heat sink style cooling Xantrex charge controllers are versatile and reliable. The C60 is a 100% solid state, microprocessor-driven controller which is UL and cUL listed. not a fire bomb
I know your not a races so explain.-- Bush stock market and employment DROPS Clinton stock market new highs employment high. Bush 2 stock mark drops. Employment (8 or 9%. Obama Stock mark highest ever. employment 5.5% The Public is ignorant and can be sold. The facts are not ignorant. but this is not a political site. Were hear to help people. my interest is in helping people who need electic to service your can be to sell large house system we can work to getter.

[paulcheung]

Thank you for your post, it is very helpful. Can you recommend any specific brands or websites so that I don't buy junk again?


Edit to add: I'm comfortable spending $2-2,500 on this. Less than that would be great. But from what you guys are saying, sounds like I could actually get a nice system with that budget?

Another edit: are Kyocera a good panel? The camper roof has 4 vents (2 are fans) and an AC unit on top so it's tricky to find panels that fit in the open roof space. I could fit 3 of these Kyocera 140 watt panels up there.

If you have a budget of US$2,500. You can get some good equipment.

Midnite Classic 150 charge controller $600 or Outback FM80 $560.
2 panel 250 to 300 watts $500-600
Xantrex Prowatt 1000 inverter $240 on amazon.
2 Trojan L16RE-B 370 amp hours battery $700 to $750 depend where you buy them.
DC breaker and Box maybe $150?
Wires maybe $100?

Total about $2500

[bulldrummerbullies]

Disclosure - I get no benefit from making suggestions. I'm not a salesman.

But I will let you know that bulldrummerbullies suggestions copied below, are un-substantiated in any version of electronic or electrical engineering.

A larger inverter has larger tare losses. Every one of them, larger= more tare loss.
Generally, small AC fans have no starting capacitor, and do not consume a starting surge like a compressor motor does.
Any 12VDC inverter that claims to provide over 1,000 watts, is a dangerous piece of gear that is likely to start a fire. It will draw over 100A DC while producing that power, and it's really doubtful that the internal wires are going to manage that for a long time.
The C60 controller is a fine PWM controller, and if you use 19VDC panels, it may make you happy. 400W of panels is about the mid point of deciding PWM vs MPPT controllers, and I can't decide for you. Your choice, price the 19v panels, fat interconnect wires and the C60 and then price 40V 200W panels and MPPT controllers, thin wires and see which works better for you. The honda eu1000 is a nice, small quiet generator and can run a battery charger for you in bad weather.

You are right about the fans I'm over reacting because of motor start up like washing machine and small appliances. but we are miss commutating here some were.

[paulcheung]

This will curl your toes! and the toes of the guy who make a live as solar power experts. You can do it cheap and you can do it cheap and right. First do it right. Buy Trojan battery's you can some time get them at a big rv camping store no shipping why Trojan they have been # one for years, not the battery that make the saleman the most money and if your in the south your battery won't freeze and you should vent all types of battery.. Two buy a Xantrex C60 Charge Controller. If you are buying a inverter buy a much bigger one than you think dirty little secret your fans start amps is high run amps are low. ALF SPLIT PHASE PURE SINE WAVE POWER INVERTER 2500W DC 12V to AC 220V/110V 60Hz from Power Jack. Or better yet 3000W SPLIT PHASE PURE SINE WAVE POWER INVERTER DC12VNext your Solar panels may run a few lights and a computer. With that small of a panel set up you will have to track the sun which since your on the cheap means you will have to move your panels manually at least thee times a day. You are talking a year or two take my word for it you will not survive off grid with a 400 watt solar system with out a Lifan Generator the least you can get a way with is a Energy Storm 4,000-Watt 7-HP 211 cc Gasoline Powered Electric Start Portable Generator DON"T buy any other cheap generator none of them will last a mo. There made for camper. who use them once or twice be for the warrant runs out. I have seen dozen junked in less that two mo. Lifan is made be Honda. better yet buy a Honda if you have the money. I have lived off grid and learn at the school of hard nocks I'm not a solar power installer or sales man what I have told you is really life.

What you tell the OP in the Red Text is what others call Firebomb,

[bulldrummerbullies]

Wow, interesting and profound. I hope all the Inverter manufacturers have been notified about this. I am sure UL and ETL testing labs need to be notified also so they won't be approving any more of them.

If you are interested just go to google and type in.( INVERTER 2500W pure sinwave DC 12V to AC 220V/110V 60Hz from Power Jack). you will see a page of profound. I have used this invertor for thee years it dose not over heat it shut off if voltage is to high or low. a half doz war vet also installed power jack. In our group their soul power supply for 110 and 220 is power jack all are still working maybe were luck.. One guy runs a very deep well pump and his cabin. I did check review on grid tie power jack most review were bad. but the group of vet I work with do not have grid power and I choose not to hook my system up to grid so I done know what to tell you they are not china and they have German transformer with Japan parts. MY cost was about $250.00 and I have had pure sign wave power for thee years. It is not 2500 watts but close. Because of grid tie reviews I will say buy beware and do your home work. but for off grid I could not be happier.

[paulcheung]

200 amps are welding current. it need the copper wire about half inch in diameter. I don't know how you can put that in a small cramped box. nonetheless I would never have that in my property.

[TwistedRiver]

Thanks for all your input so far. I'm hoping to have time later today to put together a new proposed system that I can run past you all for approval/suggestions.

[thastinger]

Thanks for all your input so far. I'm hoping to have time later today to put together a new proposed system that I can run past you all for approval/suggestions.

You never said what your budget is.

Moab in the Summer? WTF are you doing out there and what is your plan for water?

[TwistedRiver]

You never said what your budget is.

Moab in the Summer? WTF are you doing out there and what is your plan for water?

Yeah, I did. Less would be nice, but I'm very comfortable spending $2-2,500.

I will be doing lots of sweating. Also climbing, hiking, biking, sitting on my ass drinking and taking a break from life, etc... I've spent a lot of time in Moab; I am aware how hot it gets.

Gearheads in town has free water for people such as myself. Wherever I (pay to) dump my black and gray water should have fresh for me to fill with too.

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice.

[Mike90250]

...
A larger inverter has larger tare losses. Every one of them, larger= more tare loss.
....
Any 12VDC inverter that claims to provide over 1,000 watts, is a dangerous piece of gear that is likely to start a fire. It will draw over 100A DC while producing that power, and it's really doubtful that the internal wires are going to manage that for a long time....

The high power inverter @ 12V is the fire bomb. To connect the wires for +100A current requires a hydraulic crimp tool, or a manual crimper with 42" handles. The internal wiring will generally not be robust enough to not melt. You and your friends using these inverters are just darn lucky.

[northerner]

Gearheads in town has free water for people such as myself. Wherever I (pay to) dump my black and gray water should have fresh for me to fill with too.

Thanks again for everyone's help and advice.

There's a water fill station north of town along the turnoff to all the campgrounds along the Colorado River. I'm sure there are others as well.

[Sunking]

sunking back off:Where do you get this stuff from firebomb.

Your are an Idiot. Folks don't listen to this guy, he has no clue what he is doing.

[J.P.M.]

Your are an Idiot. Folks don't listen to this guy, he has no clue what he is doing.

I wish you wouldn't equivocate so much.

[Living Large]

There was someone here a month ago who was proposing "cheap Chinese inverters" in the 3000W 12V range for home use, as I recall. He was fired, I believe, and I don't mean like clay.

To the OP: are you sure your old dogs (not your feet) are up to this Moab regimen? I ask as a fellow dog owner. Mine is getting up there - 12 yrs. But she is a Sheltie, with tons of fur.

Sounds like a fun exercise, if you can stay cool enough. Enjoy.

[TwistedRiver]

To the OP: are you sure your old dogs (not your feet) are up to this Moab regimen? I ask as a fellow dog owner. Mine is getting up there - 12 yrs. But she is a Sheltie, with tons of fur.

Sounds like a fun exercise, if you can stay cool enough. Enjoy.

Nope, I'm not sure they can handle it. Watching them is a priority. Home is literally on wheels and we can pack up and move at anytime. Sticking in Moab would be cool simply because I have a large network of friends and family that visit Moab. But I won't mind at all if we retreat to Montana, Wyoming, or Colorado. I might end up moving around for the adventure, and because I can. The only set plan I have is that my camper is equipped for off grid, and now with the solar plans, I have to park in the sun. Everything beyond that is flexible.