Please HELP me not burn my camper down!

[Sunking]

But I remember the fans are 100 watts each (2 fans). That's really the bulk and priority of my energy needs. I also know it may not be possible to run 2 fans 24/7, but as close as I could get to that is my goal.

Not going to happen. To run those fans 24 hours will require a 1500 to 1800 watt panel system.

[donald]

There's an inherent conflict here too. Does this warm BLM land have shade? Is the trailer going to be parked in sun or shade? A 12v fan for an RV is going to be in the 3-8 watt range.
Blowing a 100w fan on a pet that doesn't sweat is probably meaningless. Fans can be used during sunny days to bring the trailer temp down close to the outside temp. That's about it for cooling for pets. The good news is that these fans can run off available solar, not battery. The bad news is that you would not park a trailer in the sun that contained pets if there is a choice to use shade.

[Sunking]

There's an inherent conflict here too. Does this warm BLM land have shade? Is the trailer going to be parked in sun or shade?

Not if he intends to put panels on it.

[paulcheung]

Still haven't made it home to get my numbers. But I remember the fans are 100 watts each (2 fans). That's really the bulk and priority of my energy needs. I also know it may not be possible to run 2 fans 24/7, but as close as I could get to that is my goal.

Fridge, stove/burners, grill are all propane. Fridge could run on electric but I'm not even thinking about that.

Thanks again, and again for your help and input!

What kind fans are those? regular household 14 to 16 inches fans with 12 inches blade draw between 40 to 60 watts. you need to get rid of those fans and use one of 50 watts standard fans. it will cut the wattage to half.

[paulcheung]

If I were you, I will get 2 250 or higher wattage grid tie panels and a 40 amps MPPT (60 amps with EQ capacity preferable) charge controller and 600 to 1000 watts(max) inverter, 2 Trojan L16RE 6 volts 370 amps batteries. and a portable 1000 watts generator and a 50 amps battery charger. then will use what ever power I can get.

[bulldrummerbullies]

bulldrummer

I have bought a 19 foot pull behind camper that I will live in, off grid on BLM land for the next 6-18 months (depending how smoothly it goes).

I have spoken with a couple of solar industry professionals. With their help I know I need more solar power than can fit on my camper (Hot climate - fans!)... so I'm trying to get as much power as I reasonably can, and will have to make due with what I get.

I'm also planning to sell the camper in 1 1/2 to 2 years. With that in mind, the system doesn't need to last years and years, so I'm trying to go as cheap on it as I comfortably can.

Both the solar professionals and electricians I've contacted for help have told me they're not interested in working on a camper and look elsewhere. I'm now on my own to sort out and install this.

This is what I've already bought:
- Solar panels and charge controller:

http://www.windynation.com/MPPT-Polycrystalline-Solar-Kits/Windy-Nation-Inc/400-Watt-12-Volt-24-Volt-Polycrystalline-Solar-Panel-MPPT-Charge-Controller-Complete-Kit-for-RVs-Boa/-/342?p=YzE9NDc=

- Per the Windy Nation sales rep, I bought one of these circuit breaker to go between the panels and the charge controller, and one to go between the charge controller and the batteries:

http://www.windynation.com/Switches-Breaks/12V-50-Amp-Automatic-Reset-Circuit-Breaker/-/249?p=YzE9MjI=

- charge monitor:

http://www.ecodirect.com/Blue-Sky-IPN-ProRemote-Display-500-AMP-Shunt-p/blue-sky-ipnpro-s.htm

The Windy Nation rep recommended at least 500 amp hours battery, so I'm looking at buying these batteries (there are 4 total):

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ACNRSLE/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=SA9DJDUB8TSD&coliid=I3H5GTUDP4UNK8

Looking at buying this inverter:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00GZBHFMY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=SA9DJDUB8TSD&coliid=I2SXNH8IHNH0G2

Questions:
- Will those batteries and inverter safely work into my system? Are they appropriate, or is there a more appropriate choice?

- What wires/cables do I buy to connect batteries together, and connect batteries to inverter? What fuses and where specifically do they go in the system?

I can't express just how much I appreciate any and all knowledgeable help designing selecting this system. Thank you.

This will curl your toes! and the toes of the guy who make a live as solar power experts. You can do it cheap and you can do it cheap and right. First do it right. Buy Trojan battery's you can some time get them at a big rv camping store no shipping why Trojan they have been # one for years, not the battery that make the saleman the most money and if your in the south your battery won't freeze and you should vent all types of battery.. Two buy a Xantrex C60 Charge Controller. If you are buying a inverter buy a much bigger one than you think dirty little secret your fans start amps is high run amps are low. ALF SPLIT PHASE PURE SINE WAVE POWER INVERTER 2500W DC 12V to AC 220V/110V 60Hz from Power Jack. Or better yet 3000W SPLIT PHASE PURE SINE WAVE POWER INVERTER DC12VNext your Solar panels may run a few lights and a computer. With that small of a panel set up you will have to track the sun which since your on the cheap means you will have to move your panels manually at least thee times a day. You are talking a year or two take my word for it you will not survive off grid with a 400 watt solar system with out a Lifan Generator the least you can get a way with is a Energy Storm 4,000-Watt 7-HP 211 cc Gasoline Powered Electric Start Portable Generator DON"T buy any other cheap generator none of them will last a mo. There made for camper. who use them once or twice be for the warrant runs out. I have seen dozen junked in less that two mo. Lifan is made be Honda. better yet buy a Honda if you have the money. I have lived off grid and learn at the school of hard nocks I'm not a solar power installer or sales man what I have told you is really life.

[TwistedRiver]

If I were you, I will get 2 250 or higher wattage grid tie panels and a 40 amps MPPT (60 amps with EQ capacity preferable) charge controller and 600 to 1000 watts(max) inverter, 2 Trojan L16RE 6 volts 370 amps batteries. and a portable 1000 watts generator and a 50 amps battery charger. then will use what ever power I can get.

Thank you for your post, it is very helpful. Can you recommend any specific brands or websites so that I don't buy junk again?

- I do have a family member with a generator they're offering me to borrow. At this point I don't know anything about it other than it exists.

- I will be in the desert. There is very minimal shade. There are lots of small trees, and just about none of them grow as tall as the camper. The camper roof will be in the sun.

- I am hoping to be off-grid for most of the trip. However, I'm a diligent and responsible pet owner. These two are my family. If they are having trouble with the heat, likely during August heat waves, we will pack up and move to a campground, plug in and blast the AC. If that isn't enough, we'll pack up and drive back to high elevation Colorado (where we live) and summer temps don't get much above 70. I'm trying to make plans and prepare but will be able and willing to adjust as necessary. Their health and well being is priority over my personal adventure.

- I'm sorry, my numbers were way off for the fans. I'm working 60 hour weeks right now and I struggle greatly with numbers (makes this solar setup that much harder for me to sort out). They're just little 10"personal fans like this I think my rounded up number is 100 watts for both fans. Those Endless Breeze 12 volt fans look great, I'll buy one or two of them!

Thank you all so much for your help.

Edit to add: I'm comfortable spending $2-2,500 on this. Less than that would be great. But from what you guys are saying, sounds like I could actually get a nice system with that budget?

Another edit: are Kyocera a good panel? The camper roof has 4 vents (2 are fans) and an AC unit on top so it's tricky to find panels that fit in the open roof space. I could fit 3 of these Kyocera 140 watt panels up there.

[Mike90250]

Disclosure - I get no benefit from making suggestions. I'm not a salesman.

But I will let you know that bulldrummerbullies suggestions copied below, are un-substantiated in any version of electronic or electrical engineering.

A larger inverter has larger tare losses. Every one of them, larger= more tare loss.
Generally, small AC fans have no starting capacitor, and do not consume a starting surge like a compressor motor does.
Any 12VDC inverter that claims to provide over 1,000 watts, is a dangerous piece of gear that is likely to start a fire. It will draw over 100A DC while producing that power, and it's really doubtful that the internal wires are going to manage that for a long time.
The C60 controller is a fine PWM controller, and if you use 19VDC panels, it may make you happy. 400W of panels is about the mid point of deciding PWM vs MPPT controllers, and I can't decide for you. Your choice, price the 19v panels, fat interconnect wires and the C60 and then price 40V 200W panels and MPPT controllers, thin wires and see which works better for you. The honda eu1000 is a nice, small quiet generator and can run a battery charger for you in bad weather.

This will curl your toes! and the toes of the guy who make a live as solar power experts. You can do it cheap and you can do it cheap and right. First do it right. Buy Trojan battery's you can some time get them at a big rv camping store no shipping why Trojan they have been # one for years, not the battery that make the saleman the most money and if your in the south your battery won't freeze and you should vent all types of battery.. Two buy a Xantrex C60 Charge Controller. If you are buying a inverter buy a much bigger one than you think dirty little secret your fans start amps is high run amps are low. ALF SPLIT PHASE PURE SINE WAVE POWER INVERTER 2500W DC 12V to AC 220V/110V 60Hz from Power Jack. Or better yet 3000W SPLIT PHASE PURE SINE WAVE POWER INVERTER DC12VNext your Solar panels may run a few lights and a computer. With that small of a panel set up you will have to track the sun which since your on the cheap means you will have to move your panels manually at least thee times a day. You are talking a year or two take my word for it you will not survive off grid with a 400 watt solar system with out a Lifan Generator the least you can get a way with is a Energy Storm 4,000-Watt 7-HP 211 cc Gasoline Powered Electric Start Portable Generator DON"T buy any other cheap generator none of them will last a mo. There made for camper. who use them once or twice be for the warrant runs out. I have seen dozen junked in less that two mo. Lifan is made be Honda. better yet buy a Honda if you have the money. I have lived off grid and learn at the school of hard nocks I'm not a solar power installer or sales man what I have told you is really life.

[Willy T]

Any 12VDC inverter that claims to provide over 1,000 watts, is a dangerous piece of gear that is likely to start a fire. It will draw over 100A DC while producing that power, and it's really doubtful that the internal wires are going to manage that for a long time.

Wow, interesting and profound. I hope all the Inverter manufacturers have been notified about this. I am sure UL and ETL testing labs need to be notified also so they won't be approving any more of them.

[Sunking]

Two buy a Xantrex C60 Charge Controller. If you are buying a inverter buy a much bigger one than you think dirty little secret your fans start amps is high run amps are low. ALF SPLIT PHASE PURE SINE WAVE POWER INVERTER 2500W DC 12V to AC 220V/110V 60Hz from Power Jack. Or better yet 3000W SPLIT PHASE PURE SINE WAVE POWER INVERTER DC12VNext your Solar panels may run a few lights and a computer. .

Don't listen to this idiot, he has no idea WTF he is talking about and just gave you a great recipe for a Fire Bomb.

As Mike stated the C60 charge controller is PWM and will turn any 100 watt panel into a 60 watt panel. that is how out of touch he his then recommends you buy two of them.

[Sunking]

Wow, interesting and profound. I hope all the Inverter manufacturers have been notified about this. I am sure UL and ETL testing labs need to be notified also so they won't be approving any more of them.

What are you talking about? Any engineer knows this. Manufactures can make the box safe, but they cannot fix stupid people who buy them. Secondly if you look at the Inverters most are not listed by any testing agency. They do not have to be because they are not intended to be used in premises wiring under authority having jurisdiction. The Public is ignorant and can sold just about anything. How do you think Obama got elected.

[paulcheung]

Inverter for RV I recommend the one below.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002I04A74/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I use it for my small fish pond drive this pump 24/7.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0074VUHO2/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I try to change the battery to 24 volt bank and bought this inverter rated 300 watts pure shine and can't drive the same pump. I end up wasted US$119.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004AAKIVC/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Even though the smaller inverter has less tare losses but some time it can't power the intended load especially if the load has electrical motor in it. The pump I have rated 125 watts and the kill-a-watt meter show it only draw 70 watts continuously. I think the OP said he has a water pump? Well I guess he can use the generator to power it when is necessary.

[bulldrummerbullies]

Don't listen to this idiot, he has no idea WTF he is talking about and just gave you a great recipe for a Fire Bomb.

As Mike stated the C60 charge controller is PWM and will turn any 100 watt panel into a 60 watt panel. that is how out of touch he his then recommends you buy two of them.

Where do you get this stuff from firebomb. The guy only has 400 watts your are not going to lost your job He just has a trailer and is trying to live. The xantrex is the most polar controller for small 400 watt system . I know it is not high tect . but it is idea for 400 watts and if he is in the south. it dose not have the 30- to 40% lose that is being clamed .Also the mppt have actual loss clams of input to out put loss in the 10 to 15 % range true or not the who knows but I know 40% is wrong. The xantrex 60 only cost $145.00 and mppt cost $400 to $500.00 besides lets help the guy with your knowledge tell him how tracing would increase his out put.
The xantrex charge controllers are inexpensive , usually selling for less than $150;PWM charge controllers are avaialble in sizes up to 60 amps ;PWM charge controllers are durable , most with passive heat sink style cooling Xantrex charge controllers are versatile and reliable. The C60 is a 100% solid state, microprocessor-driven controller which is UL and cUL listed. not a fire bomb

[Willy T]

but it is idea for 400 watts and if he is in the south. it dose not have the 30- to 40% lose that is being clamed .Also the mppt have actual loss clams of input to out put loss in the 10 to 15 % range true or not the who knows but I know 40% is wrong.

It's because they never say that MPPT only works in BULK with constant current or float . Unless you pull the dod to 40-50% daily you never see any benefit accept for a lighter wallet. All your long absorbs are done in PWM.

[bulldrummerbullies]

Sunking lets help people with 400watt system they are tryingf to live

Don't listen to this idiot, he has no idea WTF he is talking about and just gave you a great recipe for a Fire Bomb.

As Mike stated the C60 charge controller is PWM and will turn any 100 watt panel into a 60 watt panel. that is how out of touch he his then recommends you buy two of them.

Sunking lets help people with 400 watt system living in a camper they are trying to live. Their not buying $30,000 system. They live in trailer and cabins. They buy junk from Freight Salvage or a farm store or off line. If I'm wrong like the fan motor, tell me. If there is a better control for $145.00 tell me. The 2nd control could give them 800 watt or the first control could be use to dump excess power in a water heater ete. and a mttp control bought. it is not a fire bomb. What other people in your industry think These charge controllers are inexpensive , usually selling for less than $150; PWM charge controllers are available in sizes up to 60 amps charge controllers are durable , most with passive heat sink style cooling Xantrex charge controllers are versatile and reliable. The C60 is a 100% solid state, microprocessor-driven controller which is UL and cUL listed.