Will read all postings over time , but would like answers to my most pressing questio

[TinyHouseTrisha]

Hi. I will read all postings eventually, but would like some answers right away if at all possible. I would also respectfully ask that you give answer as if you were addressing the village idiot! I am female and find some of the AH, Watts, Kwh and such hard to grasp.

I have 1250 watts of solar panels. I have 5 deep cells batteries (actually marine) I want to run an apartment size refrigerator that I will purchase from Home Depot probably and they tell me it takes 15 amps to run. Live in AZ with plenty of sun all day, all year.
I currently have a 30 amp (500 watt) charge controller, and a 1500 watts (2000 surge) inverter so I can run all 110 everything.

Q. 1: Do I currently have enough solar panels to run the fridge?
Q.2 : Do I currently have enough batteries (I think they are 100 or 109 AH) I plan on having 10 batteries eventually.
Q:3: Can I (and do I need to?) connect two 30 amp charge controllers to make a 60 amp controller?
Q4: do I need a 60 amp controller to run the fridge or can it run on the 30 amp with everything else too (the fridge would be the only continuous running item).
Q5: Why do I need an inverter and a charge controller? It "girly" language please! I understand the purpose of the charge controller is to make sure the batteries do not over or under charge but the inverter has a shut off of it's own, so why do I need both?
Q6: Can I connect two inverters (the 1500 watt and a 1000 watt) to make a 2500 watt, like I connect the batteries up to make more power? If not why not?
Thank you so much for your patience! Look forward to some answers finally!

[Mike90250]

I want to run an apartment size refrigerator

That fridge will consume nearly as much power as a full size energy star fridge.

Q. 1: Do I currently have enough solar panels to run the fridge?

Maybe, what else do you plan to run along with it ?

What is the plan for 3 cloudy days ? Do you have a generator to keep the batteries charged and prevent their early death ?

[Sunking]

First question you need to ask yourself is why would you want to take your fridge off the grid? Please do not answer I want to save money or save the earth because you will be the only one who believes that. In AZ you pay what for a Kwh? 12 to 13 cents sound about right?. Take it off grid and your first few years will cost you roughly $1.10 per Kwh. After you replace the battery and the cost drop to around 60-cents per Kwh. Is that what you had in mind? 500 to 800% more for electricity?

I am sorry what was your question?

[ChrisOlson]

First question you need to ask yourself is why would you want to take your fridge off the grid?

The lady's username is "TinyHouseTrisha". I'm thinking that she probably has one of those tiny homes that some folks are building, which some I have seen are pretty nice. But they are very small, usually self-built, and economical, and typically not grid-connected or connected to utilities of any sort. Being she lives in Arizona where there is more than likely very good solar insolation - and has a respectable solar array already - I am thinking it will be fairly economical to do if a person chooses to stay off the grid.

I question the choice of 'fridges. As Mike said, a full-size energy star unit will be more efficient. But if this is a tiny home a full-sized 'fridge might not be the best choice.

The marine batteries probably won't last long. But they are cheap and easily replaced with something better when they fail. Based on Q2 the batteries sound like 12V Group 27's. I would not plan on getting 10 of those. Get everything set up and see how it works, then buy something better than marine batteries like 6V GC-2's.

Still need to hear about the other loads on the inverter(s).

The reason you need charge controllers is because they control the power from your solar panels to make sure the batteries are properly charged. The inverter takes the energy from the battery and converts it to household AC power to run your 'fridge (and other things). They perform two different functions and that is why you need both.

An on Q6, not you cannot connect two of those inverters to make a bigger one. You can power individual loads with each one. But they have to synchronized together to be able to use two of them as one larger unit. Inverters that can be "stacked" together are quite a bit more expensive than what I suspect you have there. And no mention as to whether or not they are Modified Sine Wave or Pure Sine Wave. For running a 'fridge compressor you will want a Pure Sine inverter. Modified Sine Wave inverters are fine for resistive loads like your curling iron. But for anything with a motor in it the Modified Sine Wave will cause it to draw more amps than normal and run hotter than normal.

[SunEagle]

Hi. I will read all postings eventually, but would like some answers right away if at all possible. I would also respectfully ask that you give answer as if you were addressing the village idiot! I am female and find some of the AH, Watts, Kwh and such hard to grasp.

I have 1250 watts of solar panels. I have 5 deep cells batteries (actually marine) I want to run an apartment size refrigerator that I will purchase from Home Depot probably and they tell me it takes 15 amps to run. Live in AZ with plenty of sun all day, all year.
I currently have a 30 amp (500 watt) charge controller, and a 1500 watts (2000 surge) inverter so I can run all 110 everything.

Q. 1: Do I currently have enough solar panels to run the fridge?
Q.2 : Do I currently have enough batteries (I think they are 100 or 109 AH) I plan on having 10 batteries eventually.
Q:3: Can I (and do I need to?) connect two 30 amp charge controllers to make a 60 amp controller?
Q4: do I need a 60 amp controller to run the fridge or can it run on the 30 amp with everything else too (the fridge would be the only continuous running item).
Q5: Why do I need an inverter and a charge controller? It "girly" language please! I understand the purpose of the charge controller is to make sure the batteries do not over or under charge but the inverter has a shut off of it's own, so why do I need both?
Q6: Can I connect two inverters (the 1500 watt and a 1000 watt) to make a 2500 watt, like I connect the batteries up to make more power? If not why not?
Thank you so much for your patience! Look forward to some answers finally!

I have a couple of questions that will hopefully clear up my confusion with your system hardware.

How can a 30amp (500watt) charger controller handle 1250 watts of solar panels?

What voltage is your battery system?

With those 1250 watts of panels a 12volt battery system won't work and even a 24volt system would need a 60 amp CC because that 30amp CC is too small. And 5 batteries can't be configured for a 48volt system.

So what is the make and model of that Charger controller and how do you have your batteries wired and at what voltage?

[prhamilton]

A home depot fridge is going to run off AC power(you will need an inverter) and energy star is going to cut it for you. They make fridges that run off DC or even propane for off grid use. You might start by picking a specialized fridge for this application, every watt is going to count. I know some of the marine fridges are designed to run off DC generated by the engines. They are typically small and very efficient.

Take a look here for a good summary:

http://www.backwoodshome.com/articles2/yago102.html

[Sunking]

The lady's username is "TinyHouseTrisha". I'm thinking that she probably has one of those tiny homes that some folks are building, which some I have seen are pretty nice.

Might be, but unless she is at altitude in AZ going to be a bit warm don't you think? Besides nothing stated so far makes any sense or adds up, and a train wreck waiting to happen.

[TinyHouseTrisha]

Thanks for your reply!

First question you need to ask yourself is why would you want to take your fridge off the grid? Please do not answer I want to save money or save the earth because you will be the only one who believes that. In AZ you pay what for a Kwh? 12 to 13 cents sound about right?. Take it off grid and your first few years will cost you roughly $1.10 per Kwh. After you replace the battery and the cost drop to around 60-cents per Kwh. Is that what you had in mind? 500 to 800% more for electricity?

I am sorry what was your question?

I know I asked a lot of questions...but these are the only ones I have not been able to find answers to that I can understand.
I have no grid where I live and it would be $10,000 plus to get it!!! I don't have that kind of money, and otherwise it is not about saving money or saving the earth. So what I have is is how do I run a bigger than 4.2 cu ft fridge on solar power, since that is the only power I have available to me--someday will have a small generator in case there is no sun for more than a day or town, which happens rarely where I live so it is not a priority since I can dry ice and use flash lights if that does happen.
So if you have any useful information to my post I will appreciate it.
Thanks
Trisha

[TinyHouseTrisha]

Thanks so much for youy speedy reply!

That fridge will consume nearly as much power as a full size energy star fridge.

I do not have enough space for a full size fridge as I am a Tiny Houser (I live in 120 sq ft)! I know I can run a 4.2 cu ft with what I have going on now, but need just a little more freezer space.


Maybe, what else do you plan to run along with it ?
I have very small needs. I have some lamps that I turn on briefly at nite if I must. I have a 19 in tv that I do run quite a bit, but probably less than 8 hrs in a given day/night. I charge my cell phone, my wife box, andmy cell phone not all at the same time. In the summer I run a portable swamp cooler most of the day and night. That is it. Every thing else is on propane (can not afford a propane fridge). So I could separate the two systems Refrigerator on 3 - 5 of only 175 watt each panels and however # of marine/deep cycle batteries and all the rest on the remaiing (I have 6 panels, 175 watts each. I currently have a 30 am 500watt charge controller and a 1500 watt (2000 surge) inverter and 5 batteries panning on having 10 eventually. What I have now I know runs a 4.2 cu ft fridge, the 19 in tv, my lap top, cellphone, and wifi box (not all at the same time at night)

What is the plan for 3 cloudy days ? Do you have a generator to keep the batteries charged and prevent their early death ?

It is rare where I live to have totally cloudy days, though has happened. I would simply get some block ice and put it in the fridge and do with out every thing else. Have done this before and I was fine with it. Instead of tv read books, and can always go to town for my internet though usually I would just go without unless there was an important reason to do otherwise. I have thought of a small generator but so far have done fine without.

I live in the Mohave desert in AZ and am a Tiny Houser, so my needs are small power wise.
I have a smaller solar system that is separate (100 watt with one deep cell battery) which I run my small water pump with on-off switch and two 12 volt lamps, that gives me enough lite to do what I gotta do at night.
Soooo appreciate your answers!!
Trisha

[TinyHouseTrisha]

Thank you!

That fridge will consume nearly as much power as a full size energy star fridge.
As some guessed I do live in a Tiny House and so space is a real big issue. My tiny house if 120 st ft but has a 14 ft ceiling. I have R-19 insulation on the walls and R-30 insulation on the roof. (pun intended!) Note: I am building a second tiny house and I am able to run all my power equipment on what I have just fine. I turn everything even the fridge off when I use my power tools such as the skil saw.
I will only need the swamp cooler in the summer for 64 sq ftwith a 6 ft ceiling in the summer and a small lamp.


Maybe, what else do you plan to run along with it ? 19 in tv, one lamp with at least a 50 watt light bulb (those new kind) and not for long periods of time, my lap top computer, just enough to charge it's battery full, then will use it off the solar until I need to recharge it again (about every 3 hours) a cellphone not every day, maybe a couple of times a month, and the wi fi box. I think that is it. OH! My portable swamp cooler in the summer, on almost continuously, would love to get a small air conditioner but have gotten the impression I don't have enough of anything to run one, but my neighbors have a similar system to mine and they run a pretty good size swamp cooler which would be fine with me too.

What is the plan for 3 cloudy days ? Do you have a generator to keep the batteries charged and prevent their early death ?

Have answered this in another reply.

Here is my system: 6 solar panels with white backing at 175 watts each, these are all the same brand and are 24 watt panels. A 60 amp fuse box (between the panels and the charge controller) A 30 amp (manual said 500 watts) mmpt charge controller, connected to the fuse box, then to the batteries. I have 5, 109ah marine deep cycle 12 v batteries. A 1500 watt (2000 surge value) inverter to be able to use my 110 items. I also have a 1000 watt (1500 surge) inverter that I am not yet using.
I have two solar systems, that is the first one. For 1 year I have successfully run every thing I have including a 4.2 cu ft fridge, which runs 24/7 , unless I run my19 in tv all night, then the inverter shuts it all down around maybe 4 a.m. so I try to remember to put the tv on the off timer, then the fridge will run all nite. My inverters do not let the batteries run down past 11.9 before it turns it all off. The portable swamp cooler doesn't seem to use a lot of power, and I use it only when it is too hot to take the heat,(over 100 degrees) so some times that means all day and all nite with nothing else but the fridge running.
My second system is 100 watt suitcase panel with its own controller and Have only 1, 12 v battery which runs the small RV size water pump that has an on off switch so it runs only when I need it, and I have two 12 V lamps and I run one all nite, rarely if ever during the day. Have used this system for over 1.5 years, would like to hook up a hot water heater to this system. Will probably also use this system for my 64 sq ft tiny "bedroom" when it is finished, so will use one of the 12 v lamps for lighting and will use my lap top and wi fi box.

Welcome any comments on this set up.

I have a disposable income (money that I can use get things I need such as the batteries, charge controllers, etc.) each month of $100, so you can see I have to save up for a lot of things!
2015 I may have more money and I am wondering if I should just save up for a propane fridge, but propane is very expensive. Or since I really do not need a bigger fridge, just a bigger freezer, maybe keep the little fridge and get a 4.5 cu ft freezer?

What do you all think?
Thanks again for all your help!

[TinyHouseTrisha]

sound like...

The lady's username is "TinyHouseTrisha". I'm thinking that she probably has one of those tiny homes that some folks are building, which some I have seen are pretty nice. But they are very small, usually self-built, and economical, and typically not grid-connected or connected to utilities of any sort. Being she lives in Arizona where there is more than likely very good solar insolation - and has a respectable solar array already - I am thinking it will be fairly economical to do if a person chooses to stay off the grid.

I question the choice of 'fridges. As Mike said, a full-size energy star unit will be more efficient. But if this is a tiny home a full-sized 'fridge might not be the best choice.

The marine batteries probably won't last long. But they are cheap and easily replaced with something better when they fail. Based on Q2 the batteries sound like 12V Group 27's. I would not plan on getting 10 of those. Get everything set up and see how it works, then buy something better than marine batteries like 6V GC-2's.

Still need to hear about the other loads on the inverter(s).

The reason you need charge controllers is because they control the power from your solar panels to make sure the batteries are properly charged. The inverter takes the energy from the battery and converts it to household AC power to run your 'fridge (and other things). They perform two different functions and that is why you need both.

An on Q6, not you cannot connect two of those inverters to make a bigger one. You can power individual loads with each one. But they have to synchronized together to be able to use two of them as one larger unit. Inverters that can be "stacked" together are quite a bit more expensive than what I suspect you have there. And no mention as to whether or not they are Modified Sine Wave or Pure Sine Wave. For running a 'fridge compressor you will want a Pure Sine inverter. Modified Sine Wave inverters are fine for resistive loads like your curling iron. But for anything with a motor in it the Modified Sine Wave will cause it to draw more amps than normal and run hotter than normal.

Sounds like I need to save up for a sine wave inverter(I do understand the difference between modified and sine) will the modified burn up the motor on my 4.2 cu ft fridge over time?

[ChrisOlson]

Trisha - some off-grid folks have successfully converted small chest freezers to a 'fridge. Less loss of cold air when you open the lid, but somewhat inconvenient because they don't have shelves. I don't know the details of the conversion, but I think it just involves changing the thermostat so the temp inside is just above freezing. I have heard these converted chest freezers are very low energy consumption.

I would stay away from a propane fridge. We have a couple off-grid neighbors here who have bought them and they are VERY expensive to run. With propane over $5/gallon last year it was costing our closest neighbor over $100/month just to run their fridge. Putting in an extra solar panel or two and using electric fridge is a much better option for off-grid.

On your question on the MSW inverter - I doubt it will burn it up. It will just cause it to run inefficient and waste your power. And since power is at a premium for off-grid homes I would recommend a pure sine inverter.

[slopoke]

Trisha - some off-grid folks have successfully converted small chest freezers to a 'fridge. Less loss of cold air when you open the lid, but somewhat inconvenient because they don't have shelves. I don't know the details of the conversion, but I think it just involves changing the thermostat so the temp inside is just above freezing. I have heard these converted chest freezers are very low energy consumption.

.

The url below is a video on how to convert a freezer, fairly simple.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdmkGIGPXU8#t=30