Trouble in Hawaii's Solar Paradise

[Sunking]

Guys hydro is a moot point and a Straw Man argument. In the USA all hydro has been built out. No more river or waterways to use.

[inetdog]

Guys hydro is a moot point and a Straw Man argument. In the USA all hydro has been built out. No more river or waterways to use.

Not to mention that taking existing hydro and converting part of it from base load to standby would be absurd both economically and environmentally. Pumped hydro storage still needs a reservoir somewhere, including maybe a new dam. Not likely to happen anytime soon.

[bonaire]

Just do what our backwards state of PA is doing with Act 129. Implementing smart meters through a $200M federal grant. Then they ask you to sign up to get your AC turned off during peak load! Micro-rolling-"blackouts" of your AC for 15 minutes. That's forward thinking. Saving a few hundred thousand dollars a year through a multi-million dollar program. Soon, we'll be our own Carribean Island.

[Naptown]

Actually will save a lot more than a couple hundred thousand a year.
Meter readers are no longer needed, vehicles and gas to get them to their routes gone,
A meter cannot turn your AC only off unless there is a separate device to interface with the AC unit. Here it is done through programmable thermostats. When I had two of them in the last house I got if I remember correctly a one time $200 credit for each one, They installed for free, and I got a $24 a month credit during the summer months for each if I remember. There were tiers you could choose as to how much they could turn off for. The longer you were willing to be turned off the higher the credit. The house only got hot once during a really bad time. This was before the smart meter was installed. I was on the highest tier (longest off) I took the access plate off the condensing and jammed the contactor in and turned the fan to on and good to go. Couldn't do that with a smart meter they would catch on.

[bonaire]

I'm going by what they state to the public.
PECO states that the smart meter program will save 200,000-300,000 kWh per year. What's the wholesale price of that? THey may have mistyped kWh for MWh in that press release I read a while back.

Also:

PECO Investments. PECO is investing $328 million over four years in their Smart Ideas energy efficiency program for residential and business customers through which they are pursuing a goal to reduce overall consumption by 3% and peak load by 4.5% by 2013.

Why does a power company want to reduce consumption? They sell power at a premium over wholesale. Sell more, make more? The peak load is an issue, of course, and reduction of those spikes where wholesale hourly rates come in and overshadow ratepayer income is where the savings will come. What they never state is how they can move consumption to the evening and night hours where their own costs are much lower. No TOU plans yet available in PA - which is how that activity occurs. Smart meters plus TOU works to spread load out and make room for things like electric vehicles and peak-demand decreases. I've read a study about TOU that seemed to state (through their logic) that TOU moves usage to off-peak hours and that's good for a utility.

I don't know if the meter reading programs are still going on out there - my home meter now (not smart) uses RF to communicate back.

Some of the smart meters in action:

http://articles.philly.com/2013-03-18/business/37789902_1_smart-meters-smart-meter-program-new-generation-meters

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/consumer&id=8809907

[SunEagle]

Actually will save a lot more than a couple hundred thousand a year.
Meter readers are no longer needed, vehicles and gas to get them to their routes gone,
A meter cannot turn your AC only off unless there is a separate device to interface with the AC unit. Here it is done through programmable thermostats. When I had two of them in the last house I got if I remember correctly a one time $200 credit for each one, They installed for free, and I got a $24 a month credit during the summer months for each if I remember. There were tiers you could choose as to how much they could turn off for. The longer you were willing to be turned off the higher the credit. The house only got hot once during a really bad time. This was before the smart meter was installed. I was on the highest tier (longest off) I took the access plate off the condensing and jammed the contactor in and turned the fan to on and good to go. Couldn't do that with a smart meter they would catch on.

I just got the "smart" meter last year. I have had load shed equipment at my home in Florida for about 24 years. I get a credit of up to $12 a month but I have to let the Utility shut off either my AC, pool pump or hot water heater. They use small green control boxes that through a signal (probably carrier wave) will open the circuit that powers these devices.

Since I went over to a solar water heater in 2010 my "credit" has been reduced to about $5 since the heater was one of the bigger loads to shed that they no longer have control of.

[Ian S]

Actually will save a lot more than a couple hundred thousand a year.
Meter readers are no longer needed, vehicles and gas to get them to their routes gone,

APS just swapped out my dedicated (solar production) mechanical meter for a smart meter. They were supposed to leave the old meter but didn't. Hope Sunpower didn't want it back at the end of the lease.

[russ]

My brother was a powerhouse operator at a small hydro project in OR. When Enron owned it the money boys in the head office controlled production.

He complained about having to roll the turbines below minimum speed while they waited for opportunity to come (conserving water) and then having to run them up as fast as possible when the sale was made - sometimes for as much as 1,000$ per mW because some utility was caught out.

He said the entire dam seemed to vibrate as the turbines went through critical speed points - he was glad to see Enron go.

[bonaire]

Enron was as close to a treasonous mutiny on our country and still a legal company in the eyes of congress.

[Sunking]

Enron was as close to a treasonous mutiny on our country and still a legal company in the eyes of congress.

Enron does not exist.

[inetdog]

Enron does not exist.

I guess they do have the death penalty for corporate persons too.