PJM auction and near-term future elec. prices (PA/NJ)

[bonaire]

Looks like electricity prices in the PA and NJ area will be stable or lower going into 2017. Record number of generation was put up for auction last Friday.

http://www.pjm.com/~/media/about-pjm/newsroom/2013-releases/20130524-pjm-capacity-auction.ashx

So, if you are in this area and aren't supplementing your electricity with solar - that's good as your electric bill won't be going up for a few years, at least. Some headwinds for companies like Solar City who are moving into the New Jersey area. Now, this also means it may be a great time to buy an EV type car - Tesla, Volt, Leaf, whatever. Lower electric "fuel" prices may be a good hedge against an unknown future for gasoline prices. The power companies will be wanting you to use more off-peak kWh for things like EV charging.

Exelon, local power generator operating here, now faces a downgrade by Deutch Bank

http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+PT+Change/Deutsche+Bank+Downgrades+Exelon+(EXC)+to+Hold/8370718.html

Another good one (if you are a stock trader...)

http://beta.fool.com/mthiessen/2013/05/27/after-rapid-rise-are-these-solar-companies-setting/35244/?source=eogyholnk0000001

[SunEagle]

Looks like electricity prices in the PA and NJ area will be stable or lower going into 2017. Record number of generation was put up for auction last Friday.

http://www.pjm.com/~/media/about-pjm/newsroom/2013-releases/20130524-pjm-capacity-auction.ashx

So, if you are in this area and aren't supplementing your electricity with solar - that's good as your electric bill won't be going up for a few years, at least. Some headwinds for companies like Solar City who are moving into the New Jersey area. Now, this also means it may be a great time to buy an EV type car - Tesla, Volt, Leaf, whatever. Lower electric "fuel" prices may be a good hedge against an unknown future for gasoline prices. The power companies will be wanting you to use more off-peak kWh for things like EV charging.

Exelon, local power generator operating here, now faces a downgrade by Deutch Bank

http://www.streetinsider.com/Analyst+PT+Change/Deutsche+Bank+Downgrades+Exelon+(EXC)+to+Hold/8370718.html

Another good one (if you are a stock trader...)
http://beta.fool.com/mthiessen/2013/...gyholnk0000001

I always thought the metropolitan North NJ area was a good place to use an EV provided there were charging stations for short distance commuters. It is still hard to justify for anyone that has a long commute or no remote charging station.

[bonaire]

By EV I mean Volt as well. Today, I will drive my Volt from home to a meeting this evening and the round-trip is about 90 miles. I'll burn about 1.1 gallon of gas and go about 48 miles on electricity. Tomorrow, I drive 70 miles to NJ and plug-in, then drive 70 miles home. I'll drive just under 140 miles and burn under 1.5 gallons of gas. Over the last few days, I did various sub-45 mile trips each and never burned gas. Perfect for an electric infrastructure that has stable prices or going lower.

If the power companies are facing lower wholesale costs for power - they should try to increase energy usage among the customer base and be a big proponent of EVs.

The meeting I'm going to tonight is within the realm of the Smart Grid and energy storage at: http://www.themarea.org/

One thing flat electric prices will do is slow down the adoption of renewables - so as we enter the first week of June here in Philadelphia with our first heat-wave (low-90s for four days) and as we read more about growing climate issues - keeping the prices of energy down will assure that we will really do relatively-nothing to lower our ecological impact around the world. Especially with some of the notes on this forum about the new coal-burning electricity plants going up in India and even more in China.

[SunEagle]

By EV I mean Volt as well. Today, I will drive my Volt from home to a meeting this evening and the round-trip is about 90 miles. I'll burn about 1.1 gallon of gas and go about 48 miles on electricity. Tomorrow, I drive 70 miles to NJ and plug-in, then drive 70 miles home. I'll drive just under 140 miles and burn under 1.5 gallons of gas. Over the last few days, I did various sub-45 mile trips each and never burned gas. Perfect for an electric infrastructure that has stable prices or going lower.

If the power companies are facing lower wholesale costs for power - they should try to increase energy usage among the customer base and be a big proponent of EVs.

The meeting I'm going to tonight is within the realm of the Smart Grid and energy storage at: http://www.themarea.org/

One thing flat electric prices will do is slow down the adoption of renewables - so as we enter the first week of June here in Philadelphia with our first heat-wave (low-90s for four days) and as we read more about growing climate issues - keeping the prices of energy down will assure that we will really do relatively-nothing to lower our ecological impact around the world. Especially with some of the notes on this forum about the new coal-burning electricity plants going up in India and even more in China.

Plug in hybrids are EV's as far as I am concerned. It will always be cheaper to charge via the "grid" than to run a "fuel" consuming generator mounted in the automobile.

I am still hoping VW changes their mind and introduces the Jetta Diesel/Elec hybrid instead of the Gas/Elec. One can only hope.

[bonaire]

Plug in hybrids are EV's as far as I am concerned. It will always be cheaper to charge via the "grid" than to run a "fuel" consuming generator mounted in the automobile.

I am still hoping VW changes their mind and introduces the Jetta Diesel/Elec hybrid instead of the Gas/Elec. One can only hope.

I like the VW CrossBlue concept: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...HINA/130419772
My wife just leased a Honda CR-V for three years and we will be looking for a plug-in EREV CUV style after her lease runs out mid-2016.

EVs in the Washington DC area had a get-together this past weekend. http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?47449

[SunEagle]

I like the VW CrossBlue concept: http://www.autoweek.com/article/2013...HINA/130419772
My wife just leased a Honda CR-V for three years and we will be looking for a plug-in EREV CUV style after her lease runs out mid-2016.

EVs in the Washington DC area had a get-together this past weekend. http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?47449

Nice group picture in DC. That little green one up front with the bicycle wheels is about my speed.

[bonaire]

The talk last night was good.

It was from an engineer at East Penn Manufacturing - the Deka battery company. Sunking must know of them through his cell tower standby battery system experience. They have built a dual-type of battery (half super-cap and half standard) AGM 2V cell that is 2000+ Ah for their grid storage testing sites. Seems to be an interesting product that would allow for fast demand-response for small 1MW type units for grid regulation and also for renewables' peak output then offsetting it by taking the noon-time peak of solar, storing it and releasing it at 4-7pm. The battery itself is called the Deka UltraBattery and they have it going through higher powered charge/discharge cycles in the tens of thousands off cycles per year.

[SunEagle]

The talk last night was good.

It was from an engineer at East Penn Manufacturing - the Deka battery company. Sunking must know of them through his cell tower standby battery system experience. They have built a dual-type of battery (half super-cap and half standard) AGM 2V cell that is 2000+ Ah for their grid storage testing sites. Seems to be an interesting product that would allow for fast demand-response for small 1MW type units for grid regulation and also for renewables' peak output then offsetting it by taking the noon-time peak of solar, storing it and releasing it at 4-7pm. The battery itself is called the Deka UltraBattery and they have it going through higher powered charge/discharge cycles in the tens of thousands off cycles per year.

What is the battery made out of and how does it compare to the costs of the other types of research batteries?

[bonaire]

He didn't go into too much detail but did show the typical drawing comparing a Ultra-cap with a conventional lead-acid and the Ultra Battery is a combined approach with plates from either type in one package (one big 2V battery).

Some info:

http://www.smartgrid.gov/project/east_penn_manufacturing_co_grid_scale_energy_storage_demonstration_using_ultrabattery_techno

http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=1813

Slides from his presentation will show up here at some point: http://www.themarea.org/

(for Sunking if reading - Michael Mann did a presentation a month ago, available on the marea link, and he is one of the climate scientists who defined the "hockey stick" presentation regarding climate change and a link to human caused global warming. I know you had claimed that it is a "hoax" in some threads here. I'm reading his book now and there is a whole lot of political angles to the issue of clouding over the real facts behind it. But it is convincing that climate change and global heating is due to the changes we have made as an industrialized planet.)

[SunEagle]

He didn't go into too much detail but did show the typical drawing comparing a Ultra-cap with a conventional lead-acid and the Ultra Battery is a combined approach with plates from either type in one package (one big 2V battery).

Some info:

http://www.smartgrid.gov/project/east_penn_manufacturing_co_grid_scale_energy_storage_demonstration_using_ultrabattery_techno

http://www.dekabatteries.com/default.aspx?pageid=1813

Slides from his presentation will show up here at some point: http://www.themarea.org/

(for Sunking if reading - Michael Mann did a presentation a month ago, available on the marea link, and he is one of the climate scientists who defined the "hockey stick" presentation regarding climate change and a link to human caused global warming. I know you had claimed that it is a "hoax" in some threads here. I'm reading his book now and there is a whole lot of political angles to the issue of clouding over the real facts behind it. But it is convincing that climate change and global heating is due to the changes we have made as an industrialized planet.)

The Deka batteries look just like a typical FLA type. Maybe they came up with a way to squeeze more out of it but the energy density is nothing really new. Or maybe they are on the path somewhere.

Overall it does look like they are working on a Grid Size UPS system for momentary outages or to supplement peak usage.

[bonaire]

Right - in fact, the demand-response graph shows hundreds of charge/discharge power transfers per day based on the FERC regulation of the local grid management (PJM). Pretty cool. Their Ultra Battery isn't on their catalog pages, but is part of R&D and I think Sunking knows more about it.

[SunEagle]

Right - in fact, the demand-response graph shows hundreds of charge/discharge power transfers per day based on the FERC regulation of the local grid management (PJM). Pretty cool. Their Ultra Battery isn't on their catalog pages, but is part of R&D and I think Sunking knows more about it.

Sounds like something to keep our eyes on if it pans out as a viable solar storage system.