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  • Installed solar one month, have question about the utility bill

    Admin, if I posted in the wrong forum, please remove to the right one.

    Tesla installed solar and turned on 4/1/2021. According to Tesla, the system will produce more than my usage (140%). April last year (4/2020) usage was 525kWh.

    In month of April, it produced close to 1000 kWh (I keep recording every day). Today, I got the bill from SCE (period 4/1 – 4/29), the usage on the bill in April is 279kWh x $0.23/kWh = $66 - $29 (CA climate credit) = $36 (the amount I am owe).

    I was assuming with the amount should be negative or at least zero. Would someone kindly explain it to me? I had hear about NEM but there was nothing like that in the bill. I am so confused at this point.

    I am in S.Cal. Tried to upload attachment of the bill but couldn't "error uploading image".
    Last edited by hpdad; 05-05-2021, 01:01 AM.

  • #2
    Originally posted by hpdad View Post
    Today, I got the bill from SCE (period 4/1 – 4/29), the usage on the bill in April is 279kWh x $0.23/kWh = $66 - $29 (CA climate credit) = $36 (the amount I am owe).

    I was assuming with the amount should be negative or at least zero. Would someone kindly explain it to me?
    I would check your meter during the day when you are sure you are producing more than you're consuming. Does the meter show that production properly? (Either decreasing kwh or a separate production counter that's increasing)

    Then I'd check that your billing has been updated to handle solar properly.

    And lastly, most likely you have a "smart meter" - and probably you can get a very detailed breakdown of the power flow in/out of your home for the past 1 year. Probably in 15 minute or 1 hour increments. A big table showing the kwh consumed / produced during each 15 minute period.
    And from that you would be able to see what your meter thinks you've produced/consumed for the past month.

    For all we know you've had a well pump spring a leak and while it was 525kwh last year, this year you used ~1300kwh (1000kwh from solar and 300 from the grid)

    Comment


    • #3
      Utility rate plans are designed to be complicated and are often biased against solar (big surprise). The devil is in the details. You have to really get into the details and figure out where your solar power is going and how it is being billed....
      BSEE, R11, NABCEP, Chevy BoltEV, >3000kW installed

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by hpdad View Post
        Admin, if I posted in the wrong forum, please remove to the right one.


        I was assuming with the amount should be negative or at least zero. Would someone kindly explain it to me? I had hear about NEM but there was nothing like that in the bill. I am so confused at this point.

        .
        In general, you will never see a negative monthly bill because there are several (and increasing) non-bypassable charges (NBC) from all CA POCO's. NEM is a program that you have to choose so unless you did that when you installed solar it won't show up on your bill. It's best that you call SCE to get detailed bill breakdown explanation.

        Comment


        • #5
          I called SCE CSR this morning. They said that they don't see solar system showing in my account. They transferred me to solar department. After almost 2 hrs on hold (they keep saying "recess billing system upgrade" the wait time will be extremely long), the solar CSR told me that it will take from 60 to 90 days for solar to show up in the account.??? I guess I have to wait for few months.

          I looked at the statement and nothing on there about the solar.

          I am guessing that in April my normal usage was 279kWh, seems low compared last year 525kWh ???
          Last edited by hpdad; 05-05-2021, 02:36 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by hpdad View Post
            I am guessing that in April my normal usage was 279kWh, seems low compared last year 525kWh ???
            *possibly* you are seeing 279kwh that you consumed from the grid. And you consumed ~300kwh from the panels (without it going through the meter). And the additional ~700kwh that you sent back to the grid is not impacting your bill.

            If you have the per-15-minute power production/consumption data, you would be able to tell. You'd probably see 0kwh consumed during bring sunlight and consumption in evening/night that'd add up to 279kwh.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by foo1bar View Post

              *possibly* you are seeing 279kwh that you consumed from the grid. And you consumed ~300kwh from the panels (without it going through the meter). And the additional ~700kwh that you sent back to the grid is not impacting your bill.

              If you have the per-15-minute power production/consumption data, you would be able to tell. You'd probably see 0kwh consumed during bring sunlight and consumption in evening/night that'd add up to 279kwh.
              I think you're right. Let say 279kwh is the usage at night when solar produces no power. Solar produces the day for my use and the large amount of it goes to the grid, assumedly, 700 kwh. I thought with NEM, I can pull electricity from that 700 kwh from the grid for night use. Am I wrong how NEM work?

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by hpdad View Post
                I can pull electricity from that 700 kwh from the grid for night use. Am I wrong how NEM work?
                Your utility needs to have configured your billing to do net metering though.

                And you just said "I called SCE CSR this morning. They said that they don't see solar system showing in my account."

                Also - I don't know what the rules are for SCE.
                I know for PG&E with the time-of-use it's actually done a $ basis, not a kwh basis.
                So 5kwh sent to the grid during peak power cost times (at $.20/kwh) may pay for 10kwh during the off-peak times (at $.10/kwh).
                Or at least mostly pay for it - there's some parts of the bill that aren't per kwh, so you still pay some small amount..

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by hpdad View Post

                  I think you're right. Let say 279kwh is the usage at night when solar produces no power. Solar produces the day for my use and the large amount of it goes to the grid, assumedly, 700 kwh. I thought with NEM, I can pull electricity from that 700 kwh from the grid for night use. Am I wrong how NEM work?
                  In it's most simple form NEM is just what the acronym means: Net Energy Metering. If you consume/use, say, 500 kWh of energy during a billing period while your PV system generates, say, 300 kWh during that same period, you will be liable for the charges for 500-300 = 200 kWh during that billing period.

                  If, when the sun is shining, you are using/consuming more energy than your PV system is generating, the grid will be sending you the difference to meet your load.

                  If, when the sun is shining, you are using/consuming less energy than your PV system is producing, the excess you are producing will be fed into the grid and you will be credited for the number of kWh you feed to the grid.

                  When the system is producing no energy, as at night or at times when the system is down, you are relying solely on grid power.

                  The POCO acts as your energy accountant, keeping track of what you have sent to the grid, and also what the POCO has sent to you from the grid.

                  All the usage and excess generation is tallied/balanced once per billing period and the running total is carried forward to true up. At true up, the net usage/excess generation over the prior 12 billing periods is what you pay them or what they pay you for net usage or excess generation respectively.

                  If you have net consumption/usage over the prior year, you'll be billed for it at true up.

                  If you have a net surplus of production a true up (in excess of what you consume over the past year), you will be paid the difference.

                  --- HOWEVER, at true up, probably on your anniversary billing period, if you have an excess, you will NOT be paid for it at the same rate per kWh of excess generation as your were credited for what the POCO sent you during the regular net metering billing periods.
                  You will usually be paid much less, like 10 - 20 % as much, or a few pennies per kWh.
                  That BTW, is the biggest reason why system oversizing is a dumb economic move unless carefully considered. It's a free country, just know that gross oversizing has a cost, and what that cost is. ---


                  The above is the simplified version of net metering. It isn't quite as simple as I tried to make it. Read the NEM agreement your signed for particulars and also know that NEM in CA is probably in jeopardy at this time. But being another Tesla victim as you are, I'm pretty sure they didn't mention that.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    If SCE said they don't see a solar system in your account, then NEM billing is probably not activated yet.
                    It took one month from PG&E Permit To Operate for my NEM billing to become active.

                    In the mean time, you are charitably supporting the grid

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by foo1bar View Post

                      If you have the per-15-minute power production/consumption data, you would be able to tell. You'd probably see 0kwh consumed during bring sunlight and consumption in evening/night that'd add up to 279kwh.
                      How do I get the details break down 15 min power consumed / produced?


                      Originally posted by J.P.M. View Post

                      If, when the sun is shining, you are using/consuming less energy than your PV system is producing, the excess you are producing will be fed into the grid and you will be credited for the number of kWh you feed to the grid.
                      Does that meant at night the power I use is purely from the grid, not excess power from solar produced during the day and SCE keeps in the grid for my night use?
                      Last edited by hpdad; 05-06-2021, 12:47 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by hpdad View Post

                        How do I get the details break down 15 min power consumed / produced?
                        Most solar system have a monitoring system that can show you your production over time down to a certain increment like 1,mn, 5mn, 15mn, 1h, depending on the system installed.
                        Some monitoring system only show what your produce, some also show grid import export if they have the needed monitoring /metering installed.

                        Originally posted by hpdad View Post
                        Does that meant at night the power I use is purely from the grid, not excess power from solar produced during the day and SCE keeps in the grid for my night use?
                        Your utility provider does not store your excess energy with your name on it, they use it for other people when it gets sent to the grid. They just keep track of what you sent, so it can be balanced against anything you use from the grid at other time like at night

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by hpdad View Post
                          How do I get the details break down 15 min power consumed / produced?
                          I think SCE calls it "green button" data

                          https://www.sce.com/residential/reba...e%20data%20for
                          1. Log In to My Account
                          2. Scroll down the page and click on the bottom left ‘Green Button Download My Data’ Icon
                          3. By clicking on that icon, you will be routed to a page where it will ask you to select a date range, choose the format in which you’d like your data provided, and select the Service Account you’d like data for
                          4. Input the requested information and then click on Download
                          5. The file should be in your Downloads folder on your desktop or laptop

                          Does that meant at night the power I use is purely from the grid, not excess power from solar produced during the day and SCE keeps in the grid for my night use?
                          Electricity is not kept "in the grid" - it can be stored in batteries or other storage devices.
                          The grid just transports from one spot to another.
                          So when you're producing excess power, that power goes out to the grid and probably is consumed by your neighbors that are nearby.
                          The net effect is that SCE doesn't have to do as much generation to put energy into the grid because some of the energy is coming from you to go to your neighbors.
                          Then at night the power you use from the grid is coming from SCE's generation (or that they buy from someone who is generating it) It's a different set of electrons, but it's still a kwh.

                          I'd use pipes and water as an analogy - you're putting a gallon of water back into the pipes that your neighbor uses. And that means not as much has to come from the pumping station during the day. But at night you';re taking a gallon back - and that water isn't the same water you put into the pipes - but it is still water and is the same usefulness. If you had your own private water tower (private battery) you could store it and then get it back for yourself - but that's a lot of extra expense for no real benefit.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by foo1bar View Post

                            Electricity is not kept "in the grid" - it can be stored in batteries or other storage devices.
                            The grid just transports from one spot to another.
                            So when you're producing excess power, that power goes out to the grid and probably is consumed by your neighbors that are nearby.
                            The net effect is that SCE doesn't have to do as much generation to put energy into the grid because some of the energy is coming from you to go to your neighbors.
                            Then at night the power you use from the grid is coming from SCE's generation (or that they buy from someone who is generating it) It's a different set of electrons, but it's still a kwh.

                            I want to make it more clearer about my question. Let's say my solar produces on that specific day says 50kWh. On that day, my day time usage is 30 kWh. Therefore, 20 kWh excess goes to the grid. Night time on that day, my usage is 15 kWh.

                            My question is: does POCO charges me with their price on night use 15kWh (0.23kWh, Tier 1), or I can use the 20kWh excess that my solar put in the grid day time?

                            If I can use the excess 20kWh it will be free rather than using from POCO will be more expensive.

                            Hope it will more clearer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              It depends on your specific NEM agreement.
                              For me, when I export to the grid, I get a dollar credit for the kWh I sent at the Wholesale price for that period.
                              When I use electricity from the grid I get charged for that electricity at the wholesale price for that period.

                              So if export during high rates and consume during low rate, I get more credits for my kWh produced, but if I export at a low rate and import during high rate, I don't get as many kWh credit as I exported kWh.
                              Then Once a year there is a true up and if there is any excess credit at that point, they are only paid at a very low rate like 3cts/kWh

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