California weather ! (aug 2020)

[Mike90250]

Starting a weird week of a heat wave. The Grid is at it's limit and the state system has a statewide FlexAlert and a Stage 2 Emergency :

CAISO Grid Stage 2 System Emergency Notice [202002423]
The California ISO hereby issues a CAISO Grid Stage 2 System Emergency Notice effective 08/14/2020 15:20 through 08/14/2020 23:59. Reason: The CAISO has become reserve deficient and is taking steps to recover.

And solar is not going to help - high humidity from tropical weather systems are bringing cloud cover in:
( I may have to run my generator sunday & mon )
Hot clouds.jpg

[Mike90250]

4:50 pm everything that can spin is spinning, the trend ramp for Nat Gas generators has plateaued. Statewide, only a couple MW of reserve. The next hour, all the solar starts going off-line as sun becomes too low in sky

[SunEagle]

4:50 pm everything that can spin is spinning, the trend ramp for Nat Gas generators has plateaued. Statewide, only a couple MW of reserve. The next hour, all the solar starts going off-line as sun becomes too low in sky

And those people that are grid tied and rely on renewable energy may see their lights go out.

Stay safe my friend.

[Ampster]

And those people that are grid tied and rely on renewable energy may see their lights go out.

I know you did not imply it but if there is a brown out it will affect every one not just those that put solar on their roofs.
I just finished my pack upgrade so I am watching this with curiosity. My Skybox has been running in Self Consumption mode so the only way I will notice it is when the lights go out in the neighborhood. Mike has to be feeling pretty good about being off grid at this point.

[Mike90250]

I know you did not imply it but if there is a brown out it will affect every one not just those that put solar on their roofs.
I just finished my pack upgrade so I am watching this with curiosity. My Skybox has been running in Self Consumption mode so the only way I will notice it is when the lights go out in the neighborhood. Mike has to be feeling pretty good about being off grid at this point.

Ha, another 12 gallons of distilled for the batteries, to be added Sunday am. Hot weather seems to make the batteries very thirsty.

And there was a stage 3 emergency and rolling blackouts implemented tonight. Maybe removing hydro power wasn't such a good idea ??

[SunEagle]

I know you did not imply it but if there is a brown out it will affect every one not just those that put solar on their roofs.
I just finished my pack upgrade so I am watching this with curiosity. My Skybox has been running in Self Consumption mode so the only way I will notice it is when the lights go out in the neighborhood. Mike has to be feeling pretty good about being off grid at this point.

I agree if there is a black or brown out everyone tied to the grid will be affected.

I guess what I really meant was that any area that relies mostly on renewable energy can be affected by natural issues. Turning off other power sources puts them in a precarious place.

While I agree that renewable is good and necessary I also know that for most it is not enough to keep the lights on. CA should be looking at additional power sources to keep their customers from losing power. That should include nuclear and fossil fuel power generating plants. Just my thought but something to think about if your lights go out.

[Ampster]

.....
I guess what I really meant was that any area that relies mostly on renewable energy can be affected by natural issues. Turning off other power sources puts them in a precarious place.

While I agree that renewable is good and necessary I also know that for most it is not enough to keep the lights on. CA should be looking at additional power sources to keep their customers from losing power. That should include nuclear and fossil fuel power generating plants. Just my thought but something to think about if your lights go out.

I think you could say that about anything. I remember in the 1970s relying on gasoline during the Arab oil embargo. Several years ago California lost one of its storage facilities for natural gas and was at risk of not having enough fuel to keep the lights on.
One of the reasons California does not have enough baseline is that they relied on nuclear to be safe and economic. That turned out to be a bad assumption. I am still paying for that mistake on my bill.
I clearly don't think about it the same way you do. When I use the grid my power comes from geothermal.

[Mike90250]

........... When I use the grid my power comes from geothermal.

Ha Ha !! When you use the grid, you elected to pay for geothermal. The electrons coming into your meter likely have never been thru the thermal plant. Just because there is a plant in Geyserville, it's unlikely it's electricity is steered to your house.
Renewable makes up 30% of Calif's power mix. Geothermal is barely 10% of that.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geysers

Calif renewables.jpg
image from CAISO

[J.P.M.]

When I use the grid my power comes from geothermal.

I kind of doubt that.

Unless your use/draw/home is at the source - that is, at the site generator outlet - how do you know the electrons entering your home started off at a generator hooked to a steam turbine that got it's motive power from geothermal energy ? Or from hydro. or, for that matter, from a nuke, or...???

All the generation from any source goes into the grid and gets used/disbursed. Some folks get B.S'd by their ignorance into thinking all their power comes from the sun, hydro, geothermal or usually some alternate energy source. What usually happening is some form of marketing and so billing arrangement that claims to get energy under some terms with some alternate energy producer or some arrangement with the POCO. The costs to the end user may/may not be less expensive than plain old grid power.

It's mostly feel good B.S. More bureaucracy, more paperwork, more waste.

BTW, where does your power come from if the geothermal power is offline or used elsewhere, or if geothermal power demand from users such as you exceeds demand ?

[bob-n]

Just for fun, electrons don't really flow from one place to another. It's fields and waves, not particles.

Us tree-huggers think that anything you do to conserve and go green affects the force...I mean the field. (Star Wars pun intended.)

[Ampster]

I kind of doubt that.
..........
It's mostly feel good B.S. More bureaucracy, more paperwork, more waste.
........

It is part of the latest trend in California. I belong to a CCA (Community Choice Agrregation) provider know as Sonoma Clean Power. I get to pay more for the bragging rights to say I am 100% green. I understand that those specific electrons don't make it to my house which is 60 miles from the Geysers plant. If Sunking is going to call me part of the Green Mafia I should be allowed to brag about it.


Yes, those are all the traditional arguments against a CCA.

Some how they manage to sell power for less than.the unbundled rate of PG&E. Maybe it has something to do with with the overhead of those big public utilities and the dividends they used to pay to shareholders. I am a strong believer in market economies and that is why I made that choice. Last year i got a dividend from SCP that covered my NBCs and my minimum delivery charges so overall my true net cost is zero, before amortizing equipment. I did not include the $5 a month they credit me to allow them to control my EVSE (charger). That EVSE normally costs $600 but they also subsidize the cost of that. I paid $150 for shipping and handling.
Did we have rolling blackouts last night? I have no way of telling because I was running on batteries all night like Mike. This morning I am charging my EV at those cheap rates and from solar that is not charging the batteries powering my house. Then we are going to drive the EV to the coast and get some of that fresh sea breeze.

[SunEagle]

Just for fun, electrons don't really flow from one place to another. It's fields and waves, not particles.

Us tree-huggers think that anything you do to conserve and go green affects the force...I mean the field. (Star Wars pun intended.)

The problem is a lot of companies are now claiming to get their power from 100% renewable which is a damn lie. They may have funded a renewable power plant that can generate the same amount of kWH they use in a year but in fact very few places get 100% of their power from renewable sources 24/7/365, unless they are sitting on a wind farm, solar farm, hydro & geothermal plant. Some of their power will come from a nonrenewable power source.

[Ampster]

........ in fact very few places get 100% of their power from renewable sources 24/7/365, unless they are sitting on a wind farm, solar farm, hydro & geothermal plant. Some of their power will come from a nonrenewable power source.

Oh the horror of that. What that implies is that people who don't care or worse who want reliable baseline coal energy may be getting renewable energy.
I like the star wars theory of @bob-n

[Ampster]

...........

BTW, where does your power come from if the geothermal power is offline or used elsewhere, or if geothermal power demand from users such as you exceeds demand ?

For the benefit of those who are unfamiliar with the California power market it has been deregulated for some twenty years. The output of generating resources like the Geysers, solar farms, wind generators and other resources are sold under power purchase agreements. As far as i remember the Geysers has sold all their output. Most of their facilities are owned by Calpine..
The California Independent System Operator acts as a form of clearing house and is primarily responsible for managing daily load. There is a spot market to take care of days like we are having now. Some power plants are paid a fee just to stand by if more energy is needed by the grid.
That is why it doesn't matter that the electrons dont flow to my home.
Anybody who wants to understandvthis better can look at the financials of companies like AES, NRG, Calpine and others that own those generating resources.

[Mike90250]

And the same system that relys on big solar and wind farms, falls apart at 6 in the evening as all that solar disappears and because the system has been so "greened" there is not enough conventional power to go around.
But we got rid of that nasty greenhouse gas producing coal/bunker fuel/natural gas generating station. And those dams clogging up the rivers.
I'll bet Gerry Browns house has a 50kw diesel backup generator so his air conditioner stays on.
( actually I had a link somewhere to his huge inverter & battery backup system, just can't find it now )